Yeah weve all seen this by now. I heard Lauren Boebert saying something similar. This kind of religious belief is disqualifying. He should have been honest about this level of crazy in his belief system. I can’t support anyone who thinks like this. This belief should be disqualifying for public office.
[ - ] localsal 1 point 12 hoursJun 19, 2025 09:25:40 ago (+1/-0)
That is one of the biggest questions I have too about this "promise" and patriarchal or matriarchal lineage.
The "promise" was given before Abraham had any children/sons, and if the promise was given to Abraham, wouldn't that pass down to all his sons? Abraham had a total of 8 sons mentioned in the Bible.
How are the sons blessed?
Sarah had one son - Isaac, who is called the "son of promise". Sounds matriarchal to me, but there are never any blessings given to women.
And the promise given to Isaac is actually a participation trophy: Gen 26:24 And the Lord appeared unto him the same night, and said, I am the God of Abraham thy father: fear not, for I am with thee, and will bless thee, and multiply thy seed for my servant Abraham's sake.
Not for anything Isaac was worthy of, just because of Abraham. Jacob's blessing is even worse - Jacob forces God to bless him after wrestling all night, another strange story.
Sarah is Abraham’s wife and also his sister. The mothers of his other kids were concubines. So obviously sarah’s son would be favored.
How are the sons blessed?
It seems obvious theres some sort of ritual in which the father bequeaths his inheritance to his son or sons, like in Jacob & Esau or Joseph.
Not for anything Isaac was worthy of, just because of Abraham. Jacob's blessing is even worse - Jacob forces God to bless him after wrestling all night, another strange story.
Their primitive iron age morality is childlike. I don’t think contemporary europeans would have been much better. Basically “We’re good because we’re us” characterizes this ethos. The world is filled with other tribes, people who are not to be trusted. Naturally the god is on “our” side and hates other tribes. Except when shit goes wrong and then the god is offended in some way. This is an age when gods are arbitrary and capricious, not a force for justice and wisdom. So naturally yahweh picks his heros in arbitrary ways.
I think you are getting at the issue that either Yahweh or the scriptures are inconsistent logically and morally. Its because they are. But don’t worry, theyre fake and gay.
Anyway it appears the the ancient jews were not heavily related as the bible claims, but were civilly united under a king for a period and then under a tyrannical theocracy that force a state religion on people that were polytheists up to a very late date.
Palestinians are the descendents of these ancient jews, not modern jews, who can be shown to be heavily admixed with DNA from many host countries. And thats the whole basis of their claim that Israel is theirs— that they are the seed of abraham. Modern jews have diverse y chromosomal haplogroups indicating their nearest common male ancestor lived ~80k years ago, which is a fucking long time. Modern jews are matrilineally descended from European women which contravenes their own law on “jewishness”
The first patriarchal blessing is from Isaac to Jacob - through the trick that Rebecca played on Isaac to keep Esau from getting the blessing. The "blessings" are very different from inheritance, as can be seen in the blessings Jacob gives in Gen 49. None of those involved lands or goods, just prophecies of sorts.
There is no mention at all of Abraham giving Isaac a patriarchal blessing with the ability to curse people. Abraham gave Isaac all his wealth, which could seem like a blessing not like Cruz is saying.
God himself blesses Abraham, then blesses Isaac, and then Jacob scams the blessing from God, but aside from that, there is no big blessing chain that commands anyone to the extent that the first blessing on Abraham is. God's blessing to Abraham is the one that everyone mentions "those that bless thee will be blessed, those that curse thee will be cursed". In KJV English, thee is singular - referring to a single person, which makes it seem like in newer English that blessing can be translated to mean all of Abraham's progeny (Israel), but it fails when given any scrutiny at all.
This is why churches choose to brainwash people, rather than let the Bible speak for itself.
After I little refresher, I see that blessing (barak) and birthright (becorah) are two different things that are probably often given together. Jacob tricks Esau out of his becorah, which as first born would be a larger portion of Isaac’s estate and also maybe leadership of the clan. Although it seems the word becorah is not used at the deathbed scene. They might mean the same thing in some contexts because a first born son that got the first blessing would be assumed to have recieved his full bequest (becorah) at that time. Becorah is more like a will. The father could say “ you suck, I give you nothing” and that is a becorah, but not a blessing (barak). I guess Yahweh gives Abraham his blessing (barak) in Gen 12:2-3 which was the verse in contention with Cruz and Carlson
there is no big blessing chain that commands anyone to the extent that the first blessing on Abraham is.
But doesn’t Yahweh say he blessed Abrahams seed or all of Abraham’s seed are his people or something like that?
There are a lot of opinions on that, because the first big promise is Gen 22:16-18 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
At this point Abraham has 2 sons, but only one is the "son of promise", ie Isaac.
The bigger interpretation of this is that since Abraham fathered Ishmael and 6 other sons, who the jews ended up fighting for the "promised land" and still do, is that all of Abraham's seed is of the blessing.
It is hard to get around the "multiply thy seed as the sand" when the kikes are only 20 million (more like 200 million but nobody wants to admit that) but the arabs and other families from Abraham are probably in the billions by now, and actually fit closer to that verse, which counts all 8 of Abraham's sons.
But even with the strict interpretation, this does not lead to the "curse" side of things, just that moment of "hey, we have kikes here, we are blessed", nothing that says any action has to happen to suppor that.
I'm sure there are a lot of (((preachers))) that add to much of this commentary to brainwash Christians into thinking all kinds of requirements to benefit from these verses.
The bigger interpretation of this is that since Abraham fathered Ishmael and 6 other sons, who the jews ended up fighting for the "promised land" and still do, is that all of Abraham's seed is of the blessing.
Aha thats a really good point. I see that this is the origin of the Midianites.
It is hard to get around the "multiply thy seed as the sand" when the kikes are only 20 million
I just think it was a typical fantasy of polygamous iron age warlords and it shouldn’t be read into too much. Every male of that period wanted to be hyper-reproductive and repopulate the earth with their own progeny.
I still think the most effective argument is the genetic proof that modern jews are not heavily desccended from the people who wrote the bible. But maybe alot of christians and jews don’t trust genetic testing.
There is much that happens between Abraham and Jesus, not the least of which is the taking of all 12 tribes into captivity into Babylon, and the further exile and dispersion of the kikes to other kingdoms for hundreds of years.
The population that lived in Judea while Jesus was preaching were definitely a mix of many peoples, not just kikes.
Makes it doubly funny when Jesus speaks starting in Matt 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: 9And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Which looks to me like a direct attack at these mongrels pretending to be 100% children of Abraham.
That is an interesting verse. But it could also mean that they fall back too easily on being descendents of abraham and are not repenting because of that. Because god can get rid of you and make more descendents of abraham out of rocks.
I am of the opinion that the israelites had no idea what their origins were since they were illiterate until maybe 800 bc or later, which was after their formation as a nation. I think they made up plausible stories that they were all related, because it made the country easier to rule.
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 1 point 12 hoursJun 19, 2025 09:08:24 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Sal_180
[ - ] Sal_180 [op] 0 points 11 hoursJun 19, 2025 10:32:26 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] localsal
[ - ] localsal 1 point 13 hoursJun 19, 2025 08:45:08 ago (+1/-0)
The blessing was given to Abraham - full stop. Israel never was Abraham.
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 1 point 12 hoursJun 19, 2025 09:09:34 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] localsal
[ - ] localsal 1 point 12 hoursJun 19, 2025 09:25:40 ago (+1/-0)
The "promise" was given before Abraham had any children/sons, and if the promise was given to Abraham, wouldn't that pass down to all his sons? Abraham had a total of 8 sons mentioned in the Bible.
How are the sons blessed?
Sarah had one son - Isaac, who is called the "son of promise". Sounds matriarchal to me, but there are never any blessings given to women.
And the promise given to Isaac is actually a participation trophy: Gen 26:24 And the Lord appeared unto him the same night, and said, I am the God of Abraham thy father: fear not, for I am with thee, and will bless thee, and multiply thy seed for my servant Abraham's sake.
Not for anything Isaac was worthy of, just because of Abraham. Jacob's blessing is even worse - Jacob forces God to bless him after wrestling all night, another strange story.
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 11 hoursJun 19, 2025 10:21:16 ago (+0/-0)
It seems obvious theres some sort of ritual in which the father bequeaths his inheritance to his son or sons, like in Jacob & Esau or Joseph.
Their primitive iron age morality is childlike. I don’t think contemporary europeans would have been much better. Basically “We’re good because we’re us” characterizes this ethos. The world is filled with other tribes, people who are not to be trusted. Naturally the god is on “our” side and hates other tribes. Except when shit goes wrong and then the god is offended in some way. This is an age when gods are arbitrary and capricious, not a force for justice and wisdom. So naturally yahweh picks his heros in arbitrary ways.
I think you are getting at the issue that either Yahweh or the scriptures are inconsistent logically and morally. Its because they are. But don’t worry, theyre fake and gay.
Anyway it appears the the ancient jews were not heavily related as the bible claims, but were civilly united under a king for a period and then under a tyrannical theocracy that force a state religion on people that were polytheists up to a very late date.
Palestinians are the descendents of these ancient jews, not modern jews, who can be shown to be heavily admixed with DNA from many host countries. And thats the whole basis of their claim that Israel is theirs— that they are the seed of abraham. Modern jews have diverse y chromosomal haplogroups indicating their nearest common male ancestor lived ~80k years ago, which is a fucking long time.
Modern jews are matrilineally descended from European women which contravenes their own law on “jewishness”
[ + ] localsal
[ - ] localsal 0 points 8 hoursJun 19, 2025 13:37:18 ago (+0/-0)
There is no mention at all of Abraham giving Isaac a patriarchal blessing with the ability to curse people. Abraham gave Isaac all his wealth, which could seem like a blessing not like Cruz is saying.
God himself blesses Abraham, then blesses Isaac, and then Jacob scams the blessing from God, but aside from that, there is no big blessing chain that commands anyone to the extent that the first blessing on Abraham is. God's blessing to Abraham is the one that everyone mentions "those that bless thee will be blessed, those that curse thee will be cursed". In KJV English, thee is singular - referring to a single person, which makes it seem like in newer English that blessing can be translated to mean all of Abraham's progeny (Israel), but it fails when given any scrutiny at all.
This is why churches choose to brainwash people, rather than let the Bible speak for itself.
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 6 hoursJun 19, 2025 14:58:32 ago (+0/-0)
But doesn’t Yahweh say he blessed Abrahams seed or all of Abraham’s seed are his people or something like that?
[ + ] localsal
[ - ] localsal 0 points 5 hoursJun 19, 2025 15:59:48 ago (+0/-0)
And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
At this point Abraham has 2 sons, but only one is the "son of promise", ie Isaac.
The bigger interpretation of this is that since Abraham fathered Ishmael and 6 other sons, who the jews ended up fighting for the "promised land" and still do, is that all of Abraham's seed is of the blessing.
It is hard to get around the "multiply thy seed as the sand" when the kikes are only 20 million (more like 200 million but nobody wants to admit that) but the arabs and other families from Abraham are probably in the billions by now, and actually fit closer to that verse, which counts all 8 of Abraham's sons.
But even with the strict interpretation, this does not lead to the "curse" side of things, just that moment of "hey, we have kikes here, we are blessed", nothing that says any action has to happen to suppor that.
I'm sure there are a lot of (((preachers))) that add to much of this commentary to brainwash Christians into thinking all kinds of requirements to benefit from these verses.
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 3 hoursJun 19, 2025 18:23:53 ago (+0/-0)
Aha thats a really good point. I see that this is the origin of the Midianites.
I just think it was a typical fantasy of polygamous iron age warlords and it shouldn’t be read into too much. Every male of that period wanted to be hyper-reproductive and repopulate the earth with their own progeny.
I still think the most effective argument is the genetic proof that modern jews are not heavily desccended from the people who wrote the bible. But maybe alot of christians and jews don’t trust genetic testing.
[ + ] localsal
[ - ] localsal 0 points 3 hoursJun 19, 2025 18:34:04 ago (+0/-0)
The population that lived in Judea while Jesus was preaching were definitely a mix of many peoples, not just kikes.
Makes it doubly funny when Jesus speaks starting in Matt 3:7
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: 9And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Which looks to me like a direct attack at these mongrels pretending to be 100% children of Abraham.
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 2 hoursJun 19, 2025 19:07:37 ago (+0/-0)
I am of the opinion that the israelites had no idea what their origins were since they were illiterate until maybe 800 bc or later, which was after their formation as a nation. I think they made up plausible stories that they were all related, because it made the country easier to rule.
[ + ] Reawakened
[ - ] Reawakened 1 point 13 hoursJun 19, 2025 08:35:08 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] FreeinTX
[ - ] FreeinTX 1 point 14 hoursJun 19, 2025 07:23:58 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] RMGoetbbels
[ - ] RMGoetbbels 0 points 11 hoursJun 19, 2025 10:49:31 ago (+0/-0)
That Ted Cruz?
NATURAL BORN CITIZENS only.