That logic falls short. It may be the case that a suffering cancer patient requires a targeted "attack" involving addition short term suffering in order to alleviate the overall effect of suffering.
A Christian attacking others' beliefs isn't ironic, nor is it uncalled for. People are just used to pushover Christians and don't expect it.
Hell ya there are cases Christians will rightfully attack the beliefs of others.
If you were born in a different country, you would believe their faith was the correct one. Spend more time worrying about unbelievers, and fuck the sick, the poor, and the suffering.
Christian exists in every country, so your comment doesn't make sense. But if you mean to talk about being born into certain households, that argument still doesn't hold water. You could be born into a household of illiterates, but that doesn't mean that's a good way to be. Nor is it a good argument against trying to spread literacy to illiterate households.
Also, you are talking as though the missions towards unbelievers vs sick/poor/suffering is somehow mutually exclusive. They aren't, in case you weren't aware.
If a 16 dimensional omniscient and omnipotent entity made itself known to you, there would be no human achievement. No art. No science. No culture. It would just be whatever that entity wanted. I believe God wants to see what we can do. I don't think he wants us to be pets. I use the word "he" because I see this entity as a benign patriarchal presence and force. Big sky daddy.
I'm not much for religion. But I know God is real. And Jesus too. My perspective is plausible and logical, but very lengthy to describe. If you're just going to gotcha me I'll spare us both the time.
I'm not much for religion. But I know God is real. And Jesus too. My perspective is plausible and logical, but very lengthy to describe. If you're just going to gotcha me I'll spare us both the time.
Why? If God wasn't outside the picture, we wouldn't have free will. I believe our existence is an experiment in free will. To see if we choose good when there is no obvious reason to.
[ - ] Reunto 1 point 3 monthsMar 9, 2025 19:42:46 ago (+1/-0)
As a Catholic, I'd take a moral atheist over an immoral theist any day.
I think the concern revolves around what reasons and convictions a person might have to continue doing the right thing. If they aren't right in the heart, what is stopping them from being swayed over to an immoral lifestyle?
I want my neighbours to have a strong conviction in doing the right thing. And part of that comes down to being on the same page about right and wrong. In social contract theory terms, I have an invested interest to convince you to be on the same (or as close to the same) social contract as me. I have skin in the game and thus I'm naturally eager to bring others into the same alignment. It's a community growing exercise. I basically want you to be my neighbour (someone with a shared social economy) rather than an outsider. Being on the same page affects everything from conflict resolution to bargaining to clan alliance transactions (i.e. arranged marriages, etc).
That's from a social contract theory perspective. The subconscious impulses people might have.
Then you need to consider that the Bible itself instructs us to spread the word.
"Being on the same page affects everything from conflict resolution to bargaining to clan alliance transactions (i.e. arranged marriages, etc)."
You are in favor of "arranged marriages"?
"Then you need to consider that the Bible itself instructs us to spread the word."
But see that's the thing. I don't believe in God. I don't believe in Jesus christ...at least what has been written about him. Their words aren't their words. Those words did not come from either. They came from hebrew translations.
We can be neighbors and all that without me having to engag3 in something that I think is completely ridiculous.
[ - ] Reunto 1 point 3 monthsMar 9, 2025 22:33:05 ago (+1/-0)
You are in favor of "arranged marriages"?
Not me, but it's an example from the broader topic of social contracts. An arranged marriage process wouldn't work without the parties respecting social contracts.
But see that's the thing. I don't believe in God. I don't believe in Jesus christ...
Everyone starts somewhere. I think it's generally helpful to start with the concept of God as a perfect being and then wind into the form.
at least what has been written about him. Their words aren't their words. Those words did not come from either. They came from hebrew translations.
Your voiced objection seems to be from a concern about the fidelity of translations to the originals. How do you propose we would objectively measure that?
There are play-on-words that exist in the New Testament that strongly indicate the Greek of the NT reflects a high fidelity translation from whatever words were originally spoken in that case. A green flag, if you will.
Sometimes it can help by looking at the red flags and green flags, scrutinize them and go from there. Do you see red flags for anything attributed to Jesus of the Bible?
We can be neighbors and all that without me having to engag3 in something that I think is completely ridiculous.
Let's call it degrees of "neighbourness". The more and more social contracts get onto the same page, the more the depth of that social economy. More cooperation equates to higher trust societies, and all the benefits. Imagine having a high trust society so high that you could leave your doors unlocked, drop your wallet and it gets returned to you, etc, etc. That is only achievable when the strength of the social economy is sufficient.
If we put aside the supernatural aspects of the Bible for a moment, do you agree with the moral message of the New Testament?
[ + ] HelenHighwater
[ - ] HelenHighwater 3 points 3 monthsMar 9, 2025 19:28:04 ago (+3/-0)
ironic.
[ + ] Reunto
[ - ] Reunto 2 points 3 monthsMar 9, 2025 19:53:37 ago (+3/-1)
A Christian attacking others' beliefs isn't ironic, nor is it uncalled for. People are just used to pushover Christians and don't expect it.
Hell ya there are cases Christians will rightfully attack the beliefs of others.
[ + ] HelenHighwater
[ - ] HelenHighwater 1 point 3 monthsMar 9, 2025 20:22:23 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Reunto
[ - ] Reunto 0 points 3 monthsMar 9, 2025 20:36:10 ago (+1/-1)
Also, you are talking as though the missions towards unbelievers vs sick/poor/suffering is somehow mutually exclusive. They aren't, in case you weren't aware.
[ + ] HelenHighwater
[ - ] HelenHighwater 1 point 3 monthsMar 9, 2025 20:57:12 ago (+1/-0)
illiteracy is a marvelous analogy for religion, btw.
[ + ] Reunto
[ - ] Reunto 0 points 3 monthsMar 9, 2025 21:49:11 ago (+1/-1)
[ + ] GreatSatan
[ - ] GreatSatan 0 points 3 monthsMar 9, 2025 19:40:13 ago (+1/-1)
[ + ] HelenHighwater
[ - ] HelenHighwater 2 points 3 monthsMar 9, 2025 20:22:55 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] Drstrangestgov
[ - ] Drstrangestgov 0 points 3 monthsMar 10, 2025 00:12:08 ago (+1/-1)
[ + ] HelenHighwater
[ - ] HelenHighwater 2 points 3 monthsMar 10, 2025 00:27:41 ago (+2/-0)
Suffering is not an acceptable component of religion.
[ + ] Drstrangestgov
[ - ] Drstrangestgov 0 points 3 monthsMar 10, 2025 21:43:08 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Drstrangestgov
[ - ] Drstrangestgov 0 points 3 monthsMar 10, 2025 21:43:09 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Reunto
[ - ] Reunto -1 points 3 monthsMar 9, 2025 19:44:01 ago (+1/-2)
[ + ] GreatSatan
[ - ] GreatSatan 1 point 3 monthsMar 9, 2025 21:01:58 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Reunto
[ - ] Reunto 0 points 3 monthsMar 9, 2025 21:47:46 ago (+1/-1)
You're an idiot
[ + ] GreatSatan
[ - ] GreatSatan 1 point 3 monthsMar 10, 2025 02:01:23 ago (+1/-0)
You religioustards are irredeemable.
[ + ] Reunto
[ - ] Reunto 1 point 3 monthsMar 10, 2025 06:46:19 ago (+1/-0)
Self-consistency and truth value are two different considerations. An atheistic scholar is going to agree that your first comment was wrong.
You probably have no idea what I just said. Go smoke another one tokey. Welcome to my block list.
[ + ] Drstrangestgov
[ - ] Drstrangestgov -1 points 3 monthsMar 10, 2025 00:14:20 ago (+0/-1)
[ + ] GreatSatan
[ - ] GreatSatan 1 point 3 monthsMar 10, 2025 02:02:41 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Drstrangestgov
[ - ] Drstrangestgov 0 points 3 monthsMar 10, 2025 07:56:11 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] GreatSatan
[ - ] GreatSatan -1 points 3 monthsMar 10, 2025 18:25:39 ago (+0/-1)
[ + ] Drstrangestgov
[ - ] Drstrangestgov 0 points 3 monthsMar 10, 2025 21:38:14 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Rob3122
[ - ] Rob3122 3 points 3 monthsMar 9, 2025 17:44:37 ago (+4/-1)
[ + ] Reunto
[ - ] Reunto 1 point 3 monthsMar 9, 2025 19:42:46 ago (+1/-0)
I think the concern revolves around what reasons and convictions a person might have to continue doing the right thing. If they aren't right in the heart, what is stopping them from being swayed over to an immoral lifestyle?
I want my neighbours to have a strong conviction in doing the right thing. And part of that comes down to being on the same page about right and wrong. In social contract theory terms, I have an invested interest to convince you to be on the same (or as close to the same) social contract as me. I have skin in the game and thus I'm naturally eager to bring others into the same alignment. It's a community growing exercise. I basically want you to be my neighbour (someone with a shared social economy) rather than an outsider. Being on the same page affects everything from conflict resolution to bargaining to clan alliance transactions (i.e. arranged marriages, etc).
That's from a social contract theory perspective. The subconscious impulses people might have.
Then you need to consider that the Bible itself instructs us to spread the word.
[ + ] Rob3122
[ - ] Rob3122 0 points 3 monthsMar 9, 2025 21:42:30 ago (+0/-0)
You are in favor of "arranged marriages"?
"Then you need to consider that the Bible itself instructs us to spread the word."
But see that's the thing. I don't believe in God. I don't believe in Jesus christ...at least what has been written about him. Their words aren't their words. Those words did not come from either. They came from hebrew translations.
We can be neighbors and all that without me having to engag3 in something that I think is completely ridiculous.
[ + ] Reunto
[ - ] Reunto 1 point 3 monthsMar 9, 2025 22:33:05 ago (+1/-0)
Not me, but it's an example from the broader topic of social contracts. An arranged marriage process wouldn't work without the parties respecting social contracts.
Everyone starts somewhere. I think it's generally helpful to start with the concept of God as a perfect being and then wind into the form.
Your voiced objection seems to be from a concern about the fidelity of translations to the originals. How do you propose we would objectively measure that?
There are play-on-words that exist in the New Testament that strongly indicate the Greek of the NT reflects a high fidelity translation from whatever words were originally spoken in that case. A green flag, if you will.
Sometimes it can help by looking at the red flags and green flags, scrutinize them and go from there. Do you see red flags for anything attributed to Jesus of the Bible?
Let's call it degrees of "neighbourness". The more and more social contracts get onto the same page, the more the depth of that social economy. More cooperation equates to higher trust societies, and all the benefits. Imagine having a high trust society so high that you could leave your doors unlocked, drop your wallet and it gets returned to you, etc, etc. That is only achievable when the strength of the social economy is sufficient.
If we put aside the supernatural aspects of the Bible for a moment, do you agree with the moral message of the New Testament?
[ + ] Reunto
[ - ] Reunto 2 points 3 monthsMar 9, 2025 17:40:48 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] FacelessOne
[ - ] FacelessOne [op] 2 points 3 monthsMar 9, 2025 18:41:32 ago (+3/-1)
[ + ] UncleDoug
[ - ] UncleDoug 1 point 3 monthsMar 10, 2025 02:37:31 ago (+1/-0)
Cringe AF meme.
[ + ] FacelessOne
[ - ] FacelessOne [op] 0 points 3 monthsMar 10, 2025 08:38:43 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] RollinDaGrassTyson
[ - ] RollinDaGrassTyson 0 points 3 monthsMar 10, 2025 21:26:44 ago (+0/-0)
Digital opiate
Refined sugar
Liquid jew
?
[ + ] GreatSatan
[ - ] GreatSatan 1 point 3 monthsMar 9, 2025 19:36:04 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] registereduser
[ - ] registereduser 1 point 3 monthsMar 9, 2025 18:08:05 ago (+2/-1)
All trace of their ever having existed destroyed.
[ + ] Reunto
[ - ] Reunto 0 points 3 monthsMar 9, 2025 19:48:30 ago (+1/-1)*
[ + ] registereduser
[ - ] registereduser 0 points 3 monthsMar 9, 2025 21:18:36 ago (+1/-1)
Faggots should be burned alive for entertainment.
[ + ] SumerBreeze
[ - ] SumerBreeze 0 points 3 monthsMar 9, 2025 17:22:50 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Master_Foo
[ - ] Master_Foo -1 points 3 monthsMar 9, 2025 17:23:32 ago (+1/-2)
Try White Nationalist Paganism.
We have more fun.