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Bacterial Flagellum

submitted by mikenigger to science 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 10:36:02 ago (+42/-0)     (files.catbox.moe)

https://files.catbox.moe/ax6qsc.mp4



46 comments block


[ - ] SparklingWiggle 8 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 10:40:33 ago (+9/-1)

An explanation? Intelligent design

[ - ] Paradoxical003 5 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 10:52:32 ago (+6/-1)

Its already been shown how the flagellum evolved, all the steps have been documented and well supported with evidence.
This is really only convincing when presented in a vacuum without the body of data that was collected on the subject.
It's what you can expect from the ludenjuden, heavily edited with the intent of deception via omission of information information would lead to another conclusion if shown.
The only thing this would convince me of is how easy it is to lead someone into adopting a false narrative just through cherry picking what information you present them with.

[ - ] Unjaded 5 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 13:11:10 ago (+6/-1)

"Been shown". No it hasn't. There are multiple wild and speculative theories on how, if all conditions theorized were met, a long hypothetical series of changes MIGHT lead to an outcome. No significant evolutionary change has ever been witnessed. Ever.

[ - ] HughBriss 3 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 13:22:05 ago (+4/-1)

Some people have postulated how the flagellum could have evolved, but not very convincingly. Like everything about the theory of evolution, it's incomplete, filled with gaps, entirely speculative, and uses a tautology to support how it could have happened.

Honestly, it's much more of a faith than Christianity. It has a priest/divine class that interprets the doctrine and acts as apologists. The only thing missing is divine revelation.

[ - ] mikenigger [op] 1 point 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 13:29:44 ago (+1/-0)

I've heard a lot of Darwinism advocates explain these things away as panspermia which is just a way of dodging the question.

[ - ] HughBriss 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 23, 2021 11:13:59 ago (+1/-1)

The panspermia postulate has been around for quite a while, but it was recently popularized again by noted astronomer Sir Fred Hoyle. I agree, it seems like a convenient way of dodging the issue of abiotic synthesis. There seems to be as much evidence for that as there is for creation by a demiurge.

[ - ] SparklingWiggle 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 15:29:19 ago (+0/-0)

Link to the data?

[ - ] doginventer -1 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 11:03:27 ago (+2/-3)

Have you got links to any of the sources on this.
I’m very much on the side of ID, but I’m totally open to evidence.

[ - ] Paradoxical003 2 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 11:11:09 ago (+2/-0)*

Problem is, I've never dealt with this issue for a while now, you posted a video of someone who has used their time and resources to prepare their case, I'm put on the spot just now.
I'm basically a man on the street here, while I'm somewhat familiar with this topic, im not someone who knows this case in depth, and am likely to make mistakes that would hurt my ability to appeal to the people I present my case to, so the best response would be for me to find a video of someone else who has been able to give the same level of analysis to this subject.
Please give me some time to find it.

youtube.com/watch?v=K_HVrjKcvrU

[ - ] mikenigger [op] 2 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 18:03:30 ago (+2/-0)

what do you think of this response?

what the professor explains is that in the particular case of the bacteria, the flagellum may be removed from the base (the type III secretory system) and the base is indeed functional, but then what about the base (secretory system)? can that be reduced even further or re purposed? What has happened here is that the model for irreducible complexity has been pushed further ahead going from the flagellum to the secretory system. Remove the building blocks (proteins) from the secretory system and you have nothing, you could not build anything. Irreducible complexity still applies this time to the secretory system.

[ - ] doginventer 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 11:24:01 ago (+2/-2)

Completely understand, I’m not in a position to back up the ID case sufficient to feel confident about doing that either.
The reason I posted the film was as much to do with the free speech issue as the ID issue.
My religious position is predicated upon ‘seek ye first the truth’ and I am finding that this is one of those subjects on which there is clearly a messy fight in progress.
I’ll be interested to see whatever turns up.

[ - ] ReturnOfTheGoats 2 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 13:48:56 ago (+3/-1)

Dr. Meyer is very much an intelligent design proponent. He is segueing into the topic of irreducible complexity: that each piece of this motor would have had to “evolve” through a separate mutation. This would mean that, until the motor was complete, these mutations would be a genetic disadvantage and these bacteria would not survive and propagate. The bacteria flagella is one of the biggest holes in the theory of macro evolution.

[ - ] SparklingWiggle 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 15:26:45 ago (+1/-1)

Dr. (((Meyer)))?

[ - ] ReturnOfTheGoats -1 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 16:38:42 ago (+0/-1)

Definitely not.

[ - ] Paradoxical003 1 point 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 18:51:12 ago (+1/-0)

Actually yes, he is jewish, but it's better to focus on what he says rather than what he is.

[ - ] UncleDoug 2 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 18:10:07 ago (+2/-0)

Intelligent design

LOL

Everything adheres to faith when you understand less than dirt.

For shits and giggles, go look up a giraffes central nervous system. If anyone created that willfully, they are a mongoloid.

[ - ] SparklingWiggle -1 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 18:38:44 ago (+0/-1)

You're too stupid to understand intelligent design. Things may well have been set in motion and allowed to continue unabated. Please fuck off, do not respond, and then block me.

[ - ] UncleDoug 1 point 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 18:59:54 ago (+1/-0)*

You're too stupid to understand intelligent design.

The people that believe in ID are not intelligent.

Things may well have been set in motion and allowed to continue unabated

Hahahaha SW has an IQ in the ambient temperature range confirmed. God made it then evolution took over?

Please fuck off, do not respond, and then block me.

Do your own dirty work you brainlet. If the facts are inconvenient, ban yourself from further knowledge.

Did god create eyes or is there precedence for evolution from a patch of light-sensitive cells to what we have today?

You are intrinsically aware of all the less than stellar evolutionary adaptations overtime before marginally successful adaptive traits are made prominent are you?

X works so therefor an omnipotent watchmaker made it, lol

We can already associate a relationship with eukaryotic ancestors and a spirochete bacterium for the flagellum.

Injectisomes are simple structures used by some living bacteria to inject proteins into eukaryotic cells. This basic injectisome can be categorised as type three secretory system (TTSS).

The protein molecules that form the structure of the TTSS are very similar to components of the flagellar motor. So we can see similar structures occurring throughout bacterial evolution, evidentiary in bacterial gene-tree topology which is a record of observations in the natural world (Science).

Because you are not aware they exist, or that you do not understand the significance of their correlation, only proves to highlight your ignorance.
The bible doesnt discuss white discovery, just jewish mysticism.

There are no well-read religoids.

Not a single thing that we can observe was just created out of nowhere by a masterful invisible craftsman.

[ - ] SparklingWiggle -2 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 19:02:05 ago (+0/-2)

Did not read.

[ - ] UncleDoug 1 point 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 19:07:27 ago (+1/-0)

Of course not, it wasn't a quote from the (((bible))).

With ignorance being the lack of knowledge, you have only proven my point in failing to provide yourself with an opportunity to read more information on the topic, so as to maintain your belief in the fantastical.

Pure dumbfuckery at work.

[ - ] Paradoxical003 2 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 15:23:51 ago (+2/-0)

ITT, lots of shills trying to drag us back into Bush era GOP Republicanism, along with reviving the scientific ignorance used to discredit such people.

[ - ] Nagasaki 2 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 11:26:11 ago (+3/-1)

This is more convincing:

1) Cell membranes have to be homochiral (all the lipids have the same handedness) or they pop.

2) RNA/DNA have a half life in water of ~month to ~year.

3) The smallest amino acid sequence that will form a nontrivial protein (e.g. ribosome) is ~100 amino acids.

Thus, it is not conceivable for life to have emerged from chemistry via chance. None of the basic three necessary parts of a cell could spontaneously emerge given many ages of the universe time, and universe sized pools of pure lipids, amino acids, and RNA/DNA monomers.

[ - ] i_hate_sodomites 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 23, 2021 18:11:38 ago (+0/-0)

I don't believe in intelligent design, since there's absolutely zero evidence for it, anywhere other than in the febrile minds of devotees. However, there are so many holes in the theory of evolution I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't some sort of "occasional intelligent interference"....

[ - ] NeoNazirite 1 point 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 13:17:35 ago (+2/-1)

Irreducible Complexity is a very stupid argument.

That guy wrote a very large book about how stuff is too small for nature. It's fucking stupid.

[ - ] HughBriss 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 13:23:31 ago (+2/-2)

Compelling argument, using the word "stupid" twice in two short paragraphs.

[ - ] NeoNazirite 1 point 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 13:30:47 ago (+1/-0)

I can't be arsed to give too much attention to these kinds of ID arguments.

It's shit like this that lead me to atheism years ago. And it was the understanding of Good and Evil (real biblical evil) that brought me back to God.

You might say that I resent these arguments.

[ - ] UncleDoug 1 point 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 18:14:44 ago (+1/-0)

These anti-intelligentsia clowns are moving back into 1990s creationism again.

[ - ] HughBriss 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 13:34:52 ago (+2/-2)

You might also say that you're a fairly typical modern atheist: condescending, self-righteous, and filled with misplaced anger and resentment.

[ - ] NeoNazirite 1 point 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 13:45:31 ago (+1/-0)

I agree (besides the anger), except I can be fairly self-correcting. And I'm not an atheist anymore: learning about the jews really allowed the word of God to fall into place in my understanding. However, the intelligent design stuff™ never fit right. Still doesn't.

[ - ] HughBriss -2 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 14:29:21 ago (+0/-2)

We seem to have followed a similar path. I was an obnoxious atheist after enduring some difficult years as a Christian and lost my faith. I returned to God several years ago. I'm embarrassed at how insufferable and intolerant I was to even reasonable people who I simply disagreed with. Well, at least I have enough introspection to realize it now and to know I don't have to behave like that.

[ - ] NeoNazirite 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 18:04:08 ago (+0/-0)

I don't have to behave that way either, but For some reason your panties are really twisted because I poopooed your belief.

Next thread will be about how God designed bananas to fit in our hand.

These arguments literally sent many millennials toward atheism.

They are simply smoothbrain arguments, and probably created by our enemy to steer us away.

[ - ] HughBriss -1 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 23:15:58 ago (+0/-1)

Cool. I have no idea what you're talking but, whatever you say, buddy.

[ - ] NeverGiveUp 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 19:57:20 ago (+1/-1)

you believe in God but don't like the idea that he is the designer of the universe?

[ - ] NeoNazirite 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 20:56:45 ago (+0/-0)

i believe in God the father and creator, but i Don't buy late 90s, early 2000s boomer ID ideas, and scientific ... cookiness. History's greatest scientists and thinkers were Christian, but these guys are just selling books for the jews

[ - ] NaturalSelectionistWorker 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 23, 2021 00:01:03 ago (+0/-0)

Out of curiosity, are you christian, or some non-christian religious moralist? I just can't trust a bible that's full of jews acting jewy (see Saul the name changing infiltrator among many others) but I could see the possibility of some kind of cosmic forces at odds with each other that want to take our world in different directions. I just don't think any particular religion is going to give you the actual truth of whatever god or gods exist, and if it did, the jews wouldn't let us see it, or at least hide it better,

[ - ] NeoNazirite 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 23, 2021 03:07:40 ago (+0/-0)

The jews are the bad guys in the Bible. We are the Hebrews. The Bible is a historical document that's been altered just enough to subvert what was once Christendom.

[ - ] PostWallHelena 1 point 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 11:00:17 ago (+4/-3)

Yeah Ive seen this dude before. Intelligent design cheerleader. I have no need for that hypothesis.

[ - ] mikenigger [op] 3 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 11:32:33 ago (+3/-0)

Posted this because scientists lose their career for even bringing it up.

[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 11:35:12 ago (+0/-0)

Yeah Im cool with that. Darwinism has some kinks.

[ - ] Unjaded 1 point 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 13:05:14 ago (+2/-1)

Darwinism is a series of kinks tied together incoherently. But repetition from everywhere makes up for what would otherwise be a nonsensical "theory".

[ - ] PostWallHelena 1 point 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 13:57:33 ago (+1/-0)

Yeah I kinda meant they need to improve their math to account for higher than expected mutation rates. But its perfectly coherent. Theres nothing non-sensical about evolution.

[ - ] frankenham 1 point 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 15:59:10 ago (+2/-1)

Darwinism basically makes the impossible possible by throwing in a billion years into the equation.

Don't even get me started on the ass-backward dating methods they use to come up with these billions of years...

[ - ] account deleted by user -2 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 16:16:47 ago (+0/-2)

account deleted by user

[ - ] thebearfromstartrack4 0 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 11:30:10 ago (+1/-1)

Bacteria waving flags is impressive, if you think about it.

[ - ] Lordbananafist 2 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 12:06:51 ago (+3/-1)

and there's billions of them in your ass. right. now.

[ - ] PostWallHelena 2 points 2.4 yearsDec 22, 2021 13:58:37 ago (+2/-0)

Autists are easily impressed.