Ancaps, libertardians, Ron Paul groupies, 'Founding Fathers' fetishists, 'classical liberals', 'limited government' conservatives, 'constitutionalists', any kind of capitalists. You can't win if you embrace the approved parameters of the enemy.
The links are worthwhile. Berlin is a noted Enlightenment defender - and the people he attacks are worthwhile in part because he attacked them.
The second book is also mostly an attack - but again the references are good for further study.
More references in the Dark Enlightenment.
This stuff, in part, constitutes a counter-enlightenment. And indeed figures like Maistre were part of the counter-enlightenment, so called.
The danger here is that the critique takes us toward government, toward fascism. That isn't exactly the answer either. But one should familiarize oneself with these ideas.
In truth, we kicked out the conservatives in 1776.
I doubt you and I would agree with the problems with the enlightenment. But I think there is a traditional conservatard contingent that has not done enough soul searching about the principles this country was founded on. I don’t think colonial britain was conservative though.
The loyalists were literally Tories. Monarchists. If you understand the Whig vs. Tory dichotomy in British political history that made the crown's partisans the conservatives by definition.
To this day the descendants of United Empire Loyalists in Canada, the guys that got kicked out, will make this argument.
The whole left-right concept referred to a seating arrangement during the French Revolution after all. The 'right' were monarchists, clergy, etc. The republicans, which American revolutionaries also were, were on the left.
I am far from advocating monarchy here. Or the state at all for that matter. But it's hard to get anywhere if you don't even understand the basics.
As an aside, Enoch Powell was a high Tory. Basically a Jacobite. About as right-wing as it gets in other words. Mencius Moldbug is openly Jacobite.
That you say that just shows how marinated you are yourself in American ideology.
Conservativism, traditionally, certainly in the counter-enlightenment sense, referred to throne and altar.
By continental standards the British weren't even very conservative in the 1770s. But compared to the liberal revolutionist ideology of the US founding?
I believe that conservatism is based on economic policy and not who was calling themselves conservative enlightenment britain. Thats only conserving inefficient economic policies, not true conservatism. “Throne and altar” are wasteful, indulgent institutions. This is not american ideology. Its mine.
No. Your points of reference are divorced from conservatism's roots because you grew up in a republic, and were indoctrinated with its talking points. You are assessing this by American standards. I.e., liberal standards. Even this talk of economic policy sounds liberal. I suspect you are suggesting conservatism is free market economics. That is actually another liberal position. Ricardo, Smith, all of these early bourgeois economists were liberals. Capitalism is a liberal idea. Not a conservative one.
The concept of individual liberty is fine and it enabled the United States to be the most powerful country in the world. It all went to shit when we started allowing unlimited shit skins.
Privileged individuals like how niggers are treated is not an enlightenment concept.
Individual liberty had less to do with America's success than having lots of workable land and being situated between two major oceans. I think even a basically liberal person like Robert Kaplan would agree:
Contrast this with Germany - which was in a horrible geographical position, and instead of injuns like we had had to deal with Russians. Hitler thought Russians were like Indians. But they were a very different opponent.
There are a lot of reasons why peoples succeed or fail. America succeeded and Germany failed mostly because of geographical factors and who their opponents were. Ideology in that sense is a sideshow.
Now? American ideology is a cancer. Late capitalism just justifies US corporate domination, an unsustainable lifestyle that makes it possible, and the export of this ideology and its consequences globally, often by force at the point of a gun.
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 1 point 1 weekJun 2, 2025 18:43:26 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Joe_McCarthy
[ - ] Joe_McCarthy [op] 0 points 1 weekJun 2, 2025 18:48:52 ago (+0/-0)
The second book is also mostly an attack - but again the references are good for further study.
More references in the Dark Enlightenment.
This stuff, in part, constitutes a counter-enlightenment. And indeed figures like Maistre were part of the counter-enlightenment, so called.
The danger here is that the critique takes us toward government, toward fascism. That isn't exactly the answer either. But one should familiarize oneself with these ideas.
In truth, we kicked out the conservatives in 1776.
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 1 weekJun 2, 2025 19:08:20 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Joe_McCarthy
[ - ] Joe_McCarthy [op] 0 points 1 weekJun 2, 2025 20:47:57 ago (+0/-0)*
To this day the descendants of United Empire Loyalists in Canada, the guys that got kicked out, will make this argument.
The whole left-right concept referred to a seating arrangement during the French Revolution after all. The 'right' were monarchists, clergy, etc. The republicans, which American revolutionaries also were, were on the left.
I am far from advocating monarchy here. Or the state at all for that matter. But it's hard to get anywhere if you don't even understand the basics.
As an aside, Enoch Powell was a high Tory. Basically a Jacobite. About as right-wing as it gets in other words. Mencius Moldbug is openly Jacobite.
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena -1 points 1 weekJun 2, 2025 21:04:22 ago (+0/-1)
[ + ] Joe_McCarthy
[ - ] Joe_McCarthy [op] 1 point 1 weekJun 2, 2025 21:08:18 ago (+1/-0)*
Conservativism, traditionally, certainly in the counter-enlightenment sense, referred to throne and altar.
By continental standards the British weren't even very conservative in the 1770s. But compared to the liberal revolutionist ideology of the US founding?
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 1 weekJun 2, 2025 21:18:33 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Joe_McCarthy
[ - ] Joe_McCarthy [op] 1 point 1 weekJun 2, 2025 21:29:00 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Joe_McCarthy
[ - ] Joe_McCarthy [op] 1 point 1 weekJun 2, 2025 18:22:45 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] TheYiddler
[ - ] TheYiddler 0 points 1 weekJun 3, 2025 06:19:54 ago (+0/-0)
Privileged individuals like how niggers are treated is not an enlightenment concept.
[ + ] Joe_McCarthy
[ - ] Joe_McCarthy [op] 0 points 1 weekJun 3, 2025 15:29:33 ago (+0/-0)
https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Revenge_of_Geography.html?id=ASmPEAAAQBAJ&source=kp_book_description
Contrast this with Germany - which was in a horrible geographical position, and instead of injuns like we had had to deal with Russians. Hitler thought Russians were like Indians. But they were a very different opponent.
There are a lot of reasons why peoples succeed or fail. America succeeded and Germany failed mostly because of geographical factors and who their opponents were. Ideology in that sense is a sideshow.
Now? American ideology is a cancer. Late capitalism just justifies US corporate domination, an unsustainable lifestyle that makes it possible, and the export of this ideology and its consequences globally, often by force at the point of a gun.