I asked chat if any ethnic/religious groups faced restrictions for occupations in the Byzantine Empire.
Always good to check more than one source.
Yes, in the Byzantine Empire, ethnic and religious minorities often faced restrictions or informal barriers when it came to occupations. These restrictions were not always codified in law but were enforced through custom, guild systems, or religious edicts.
---
1. Jews
Jews lived in the Byzantine Empire for centuries, often in segregated communities.
They were frequently restricted from holding public office, especially under Christian emperors.
They were sometimes barred from joining guilds, which limited their access to trades and crafts regulated by those organizations.
As a result, Jewish communities often specialized in moneylending, medicine, trade, or dyeing, occupations less controlled by guilds or with lower social status.
Certain emperors, like Justinian I, passed laws that banned Jews from teaching or holding high positions in education or law.
---
2. Heretics and Non-Orthodox Christians
People who adhered to non-Chalcedonian Christian beliefs (e.g., Monophysites, Nestorians) or were deemed heretical by the Orthodox Church could be excluded from public office or prominent guilds.
Religious conformity was closely tied to access to state support, jobs in administration, and military officer roles.
---
3. Muslims
Muslim merchants and diplomats were occasionally welcomed, especially during periods of relative peace with Islamic states, but there was no large settled Muslim population in core Byzantine territory until very late.
Where Muslims were present in border regions or as captives/slaves, they were not allowed to hold positions of authority, and conversion was often expected.
---
4. Ethnic Minorities
Ethnic minorities such as Slavs, Armenians, Syrians, and Arabs lived within the empire.
Armenians, for example, often served in the military and rose to high ranks (even emperors like Basil I were of Armenian origin).
However, in some periods, ethnic minorities faced suspicion, especially if their kin were part of rival states.
Occupation restrictions were usually less about ethnicity and more tied to religious alignment and loyalty to the emperor.
---
Summary
In short, religion played a larger role than ethnicity in occupational restrictions. Non-Orthodox groups, especially Jews and declared heretics, faced barriers to many professions—particularly those involving public authority, law, guild membership, or education. However, informal social prejudices and political tensions also influenced which groups had access to specific economic roles.
Want a table of who could or couldn’t do what in different centuries? Or how this evolved after Iconoclasm or the Fourth Crusade?
[ - ] Her0n 1 point 11 hoursMay 21, 2025 14:23:04 ago (+1/-0)
I know off the top of my head that a jew could convert, but I'm not sure they could circumvent the ban that way. I will look it up to confirm later, but chat agrees with what I said and goes into further detail.
I prompted "Lets say I was a jewish person living in the Byzantine Empire when I would be banned from holding public office. I want to hold public office, could I convert to another religion in order to circumvent the ban?"
Chat responds:
Yes—conversion to Orthodox Christianity was the most viable path for a Jewish person to circumvent occupational and legal restrictions, including bans on holding public office in the Byzantine Empire.
However, the situation was not that simple in practice, due to a mix of legal, social, and religious complications:
---
1. Conversion to Christianity Would Remove Legal Barriers
The Byzantine Empire was a theocratic Christian state where full civil rights, including eligibility for public office, were typically reserved for Orthodox Christians.
If a Jewish person converted sincerely and was baptized, they would legally be considered a Christian, and thus in theory eligible for positions in government or administration.
Several imperial laws explicitly excluded “non-Christians” (pagans, Jews, heretics) from public office, but did not bar converts.
---
2. Practical and Social Hurdles
Even after conversion, social stigma might remain. Converts from Judaism (called neophytes) might still face distrust, especially from both the Christian majority (who could question their sincerity) and from the Jewish community (who often viewed converts as traitors).
Advancement might still be limited unless the convert gained a powerful patron or proved exceptional loyalty and service.
Some converts rose to high ranks, especially if they fully assimilated and distanced themselves from their former community.
---
3. Genuine vs. Opportunistic Conversion
The Church and state discouraged purely opportunistic conversions. If a conversion was seen as fake—done only to gain access to privilege—it could result in rejection or reversal.
Canonical law sometimes questioned whether such conversions were valid, especially if the person continued to practice Jewish customs in secret.
---
4. Historical Precedent
There are recorded cases of Jewish converts to Christianity in the Byzantine Empire who entered imperial service, became court physicians, or served as tax officials, though often still watched with suspicion.
Some Jewish individuals converted under pressure during anti-Jewish campaigns (like those under Justinian I), and others may have done so strategically to escape restrictions.
---
Conclusion
Yes, you could convert to Orthodox Christianity to pursue public office, and that would legally lift the ban. But success would depend on:
Your public embrace of Orthodox faith
Your assimilation into Christian society
Whether you had support or sponsorship from influential Christians
Avoiding any ties or practices linking you to Judaism post-conversion
Would you like a fictional character based on this scenario for an RPG or historical story?
[ - ] Her0n 1 point 10 hoursMay 21, 2025 15:37:43 ago (+1/-0)
You didn't read the sections that addressed that?
The people around the neophyte determine their validity. Meaning the laws say it's on the local people to determine the law.
That's based, because I'll never allow a jew to rise to power, would you? This way the law is on your side, because it gave you the authority along with your neighbors.
Even if the jew is accepted by foolish people, the jew still struggles to gain power and station.
I view this section more as a "of course we allow converts to join our ranks (but not really)!" Just like the jews accepting niggerkikes from Ethiopia into israel under the condition that the niggerkikes get neutered before being set loose.
is that a serious question? slaughter every last member of the cult.
edit: actually, what am i thinking, if christians hadn't given them the fucking banking monopoly in the first place, they'd never be a threat requiring a solution, they'd be a minor irrelevant nuisance like gypsies are today.
It's all fucking bullshit. Pearls, swine, but the gist is that check primary sources and who found those primary sources. For example, Alexiad(apparently written in 1148) was "edited" by Pierre Poussines in 1651. The original manuscript was lost and his work was taken as building block to fake things further. And on and on it goes. Another supreme history, wow - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikephoros_Bryennios_the_Younger Whoopsie, Possinus is right there, 1651. Supremely important guy, but when you read the guy himself, he is like no one. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Poussines)
But just like in the Visigoth Kingdom, the jews were allowed to do a lot, and this was enough to open gates, disarm militias and fund the muslims to genocide the Christians.
That’s an interesting claim, but it’s not historically accurate or supported by evidence. The Byzantine Empire lasted for about 1,100 years (from roughly 330 to 1453 AD) due to a complex mix of military strength, strategic diplomacy, administrative systems, culture, and geography—not because of bans against any specific ethnic or religious group in government.
In fact, the Byzantine Empire was religiously and ethnically diverse. Jews, Christians, and others lived within its borders, and while there were periods of tension or restrictions, there was no formal empire-wide ban preventing Jews from holding government positions.
If you want, I can share more about what really contributed to the Byzantine Empire’s longevity or the role of different groups in Byzantine society. Would you like that?
You're wrong again! I asked "Did any ethnic or religious groups face restrictions for occupations in the Byzantine Empire?"
Chat responds:
Yes, in the Byzantine Empire, ethnic and religious minorities often faced restrictions or informal barriers when it came to occupations. These restrictions were not always codified in law but were enforced through custom, guild systems, or religious edicts.
---
1. Jews
Jews lived in the Byzantine Empire for centuries, often in segregated communities.
They were frequently restricted from holding public office, especially under Christian emperors.
They were sometimes barred from joining guilds, which limited their access to trades and crafts regulated by those organizations.
As a result, Jewish communities often specialized in moneylending, medicine, trade, or dyeing, occupations less controlled by guilds or with lower social status.
Certain emperors, like Justinian I, passed laws that banned Jews from teaching or holding high positions in education or law.
---
2. Heretics and Non-Orthodox Christians
People who adhered to non-Chalcedonian Christian beliefs (e.g., Monophysites, Nestorians) or were deemed heretical by the Orthodox Church could be excluded from public office or prominent guilds.
Religious conformity was closely tied to access to state support, jobs in administration, and military officer roles.
---
3. Muslims
Muslim merchants and diplomats were occasionally welcomed, especially during periods of relative peace with Islamic states, but there was no large settled Muslim population in core Byzantine territory until very late.
Where Muslims were present in border regions or as captives/slaves, they were not allowed to hold positions of authority, and conversion was often expected.
---
4. Ethnic Minorities
Ethnic minorities such as Slavs, Armenians, Syrians, and Arabs lived within the empire.
Armenians, for example, often served in the military and rose to high ranks (even emperors like Basil I were of Armenian origin).
However, in some periods, ethnic minorities faced suspicion, especially if their kin were part of rival states.
Occupation restrictions were usually less about ethnicity and more tied to religious alignment and loyalty to the emperor.
---
Summary
In short, religion played a larger role than ethnicity in occupational restrictions. Non-Orthodox groups, especially Jews and declared heretics, faced barriers to many professions—particularly those involving public authority, law, guild membership, or education. However, informal social prejudices and political tensions also influenced which groups had access to specific economic roles.
Want a table of who could or couldn’t do what in different centuries? Or how this evolved after Iconoclasm or the Fourth Crusade?
Learn to ask real questions, not whatever stupid shit you said to it to get the answer you want.
[ + ] Her0n
[ - ] Her0n 4 points 13 hoursMay 21, 2025 13:02:12 ago (+4/-0)
Always good to check more than one source.
Yes, in the Byzantine Empire, ethnic and religious minorities often faced restrictions or informal barriers when it came to occupations. These restrictions were not always codified in law but were enforced through custom, guild systems, or religious edicts.
---
1. Jews
Jews lived in the Byzantine Empire for centuries, often in segregated communities.
They were frequently restricted from holding public office, especially under Christian emperors.
They were sometimes barred from joining guilds, which limited their access to trades and crafts regulated by those organizations.
As a result, Jewish communities often specialized in moneylending, medicine, trade, or dyeing, occupations less controlled by guilds or with lower social status.
Certain emperors, like Justinian I, passed laws that banned Jews from teaching or holding high positions in education or law.
---
2. Heretics and Non-Orthodox Christians
People who adhered to non-Chalcedonian Christian beliefs (e.g., Monophysites, Nestorians) or were deemed heretical by the Orthodox Church could be excluded from public office or prominent guilds.
Religious conformity was closely tied to access to state support, jobs in administration, and military officer roles.
---
3. Muslims
Muslim merchants and diplomats were occasionally welcomed, especially during periods of relative peace with Islamic states, but there was no large settled Muslim population in core Byzantine territory until very late.
Where Muslims were present in border regions or as captives/slaves, they were not allowed to hold positions of authority, and conversion was often expected.
---
4. Ethnic Minorities
Ethnic minorities such as Slavs, Armenians, Syrians, and Arabs lived within the empire.
Armenians, for example, often served in the military and rose to high ranks (even emperors like Basil I were of Armenian origin).
However, in some periods, ethnic minorities faced suspicion, especially if their kin were part of rival states.
Occupation restrictions were usually less about ethnicity and more tied to religious alignment and loyalty to the emperor.
---
Summary
In short, religion played a larger role than ethnicity in occupational restrictions. Non-Orthodox groups, especially Jews and declared heretics, faced barriers to many professions—particularly those involving public authority, law, guild membership, or education. However, informal social prejudices and political tensions also influenced which groups had access to specific economic roles.
Want a table of who could or couldn’t do what in different centuries? Or how this evolved after Iconoclasm or the Fourth Crusade?
[ + ] Ducktalesooo000ooo
[ - ] Ducktalesooo000ooo 3 points 12 hoursMay 21, 2025 13:10:49 ago (+3/-0)
[ + ] Her0n
[ - ] Her0n 1 point 11 hoursMay 21, 2025 14:23:04 ago (+1/-0)
I prompted "Lets say I was a jewish person living in the Byzantine Empire when I would be banned from holding public office. I want to hold public office, could I convert to another religion in order to circumvent the ban?"
Chat responds:
Yes—conversion to Orthodox Christianity was the most viable path for a Jewish person to circumvent occupational and legal restrictions, including bans on holding public office in the Byzantine Empire.
However, the situation was not that simple in practice, due to a mix of legal, social, and religious complications:
---
1. Conversion to Christianity Would Remove Legal Barriers
The Byzantine Empire was a theocratic Christian state where full civil rights, including eligibility for public office, were typically reserved for Orthodox Christians.
If a Jewish person converted sincerely and was baptized, they would legally be considered a Christian, and thus in theory eligible for positions in government or administration.
Several imperial laws explicitly excluded “non-Christians” (pagans, Jews, heretics) from public office, but did not bar converts.
---
2. Practical and Social Hurdles
Even after conversion, social stigma might remain. Converts from Judaism (called neophytes) might still face distrust, especially from both the Christian majority (who could question their sincerity) and from the Jewish community (who often viewed converts as traitors).
Advancement might still be limited unless the convert gained a powerful patron or proved exceptional loyalty and service.
Some converts rose to high ranks, especially if they fully assimilated and distanced themselves from their former community.
---
3. Genuine vs. Opportunistic Conversion
The Church and state discouraged purely opportunistic conversions. If a conversion was seen as fake—done only to gain access to privilege—it could result in rejection or reversal.
Canonical law sometimes questioned whether such conversions were valid, especially if the person continued to practice Jewish customs in secret.
---
4. Historical Precedent
There are recorded cases of Jewish converts to Christianity in the Byzantine Empire who entered imperial service, became court physicians, or served as tax officials, though often still watched with suspicion.
Some Jewish individuals converted under pressure during anti-Jewish campaigns (like those under Justinian I), and others may have done so strategically to escape restrictions.
---
Conclusion
Yes, you could convert to Orthodox Christianity to pursue public office, and that would legally lift the ban. But success would depend on:
Your public embrace of Orthodox faith
Your assimilation into Christian society
Whether you had support or sponsorship from influential Christians
Avoiding any ties or practices linking you to Judaism post-conversion
Would you like a fictional character based on this scenario for an RPG or historical story?
[ + ] Ducktalesooo000ooo
[ - ] Ducktalesooo000ooo 0 points 11 hoursMay 21, 2025 14:37:42 ago (+0/-0)
So this was a red herring.
[ + ] Her0n
[ - ] Her0n 0 points 10 hoursMay 21, 2025 15:10:43 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Ducktalesooo000ooo
[ - ] Ducktalesooo000ooo 1 point 10 hoursMay 21, 2025 15:12:07 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Her0n
[ - ] Her0n 1 point 10 hoursMay 21, 2025 15:37:43 ago (+1/-0)
The people around the neophyte determine their validity. Meaning the laws say it's on the local people to determine the law.
That's based, because I'll never allow a jew to rise to power, would you? This way the law is on your side, because it gave you the authority along with your neighbors.
Even if the jew is accepted by foolish people, the jew still struggles to gain power and station.
I view this section more as a "of course we allow converts to join our ranks (but not really)!" Just like the jews accepting niggerkikes from Ethiopia into israel under the condition that the niggerkikes get neutered before being set loose.
[ + ] Ducktalesooo000ooo
[ - ] Ducktalesooo000ooo 0 points 9 hoursMay 21, 2025 16:09:50 ago (+1/-1)
[ + ] 2plus2equals5
[ - ] 2plus2equals5 [op] -1 points 8 hoursMay 21, 2025 17:39:07 ago (+0/-1)
[ + ] BlueEyedAngloMasterRaceGod
[ - ] BlueEyedAngloMasterRaceGod 1 point 11 hoursMay 21, 2025 14:22:43 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Her0n
[ - ] Her0n 0 points 10 hoursMay 21, 2025 15:09:37 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] BlueEyedAngloMasterRaceGod
[ - ] BlueEyedAngloMasterRaceGod 2 points 10 hoursMay 21, 2025 15:54:20 ago (+2/-0)
edit: actually, what am i thinking, if christians hadn't given them the fucking banking monopoly in the first place, they'd never be a threat requiring a solution, they'd be a minor irrelevant nuisance like gypsies are today.
[ + ] albatrosv15
[ - ] albatrosv15 1 point 10 hoursMay 21, 2025 15:12:15 ago (+1/-0)*
Another supreme history, wow - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikephoros_Bryennios_the_Younger
Whoopsie, Possinus is right there, 1651.
Supremely important guy, but when you read the guy himself, he is like no one. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Poussines)
[ + ] Ducktalesooo000ooo
[ - ] Ducktalesooo000ooo 1 point 13 hoursMay 21, 2025 12:22:06 ago (+2/-1)
So do you feel different? Is there a noticeable sensation of bannitude?
[ + ] 2plus2equals5
[ - ] 2plus2equals5 [op] 1 point 13 hoursMay 21, 2025 12:27:31 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Ducktalesooo000ooo
[ - ] Ducktalesooo000ooo 1 point 13 hoursMay 21, 2025 12:29:53 ago (+2/-1)
Banning DOES things. Important things.
[ + ] VitaminSieg
[ - ] VitaminSieg 1 point 8 hoursMay 21, 2025 18:03:46 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Ducktalesooo000ooo
[ - ] Ducktalesooo000ooo 1 point 8 hoursMay 21, 2025 18:05:12 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] bobdole9
[ - ] bobdole9 0 points 7 hoursMay 21, 2025 18:54:58 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Ducktalesooo000ooo
[ - ] Ducktalesooo000ooo 0 points 7 hoursMay 21, 2025 18:59:53 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Belfuro
[ - ] Belfuro 0 points 4 hoursMay 21, 2025 21:52:43 ago (+0/-0)
There is no such thing as the Byzantine Empire.
They were Romans. They called themselves Romans.
Byzantine is an historian made up term.
[ + ] Razzoriel
[ - ] Razzoriel 0 points 5 hoursMay 21, 2025 20:14:33 ago (+0/-0)
Its a good thing, but it only buys you time.
[ + ] Smedleys_Butler
[ - ] Smedleys_Butler 0 points 6 hoursMay 21, 2025 19:59:07 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] KosherHiveKicker
[ - ] KosherHiveKicker 0 points 11 hoursMay 21, 2025 14:55:57 ago (+0/-0)
Take that a step further, and apply that same observation to pre-world war I France, and pre-world war II Russia, and Germany.
[ + ] registereduser
[ - ] registereduser 0 points 13 hoursMay 21, 2025 12:33:53 ago (+1/-1)
~chatgpt
[ + ] Ducktalesooo000ooo
[ - ] Ducktalesooo000ooo 0 points 13 hoursMay 21, 2025 12:43:27 ago (+0/-0)
Not even a ban.
How you gonna briar patch without no goddamn briars bro.
[ + ] Her0n
[ - ] Her0n 0 points 13 hoursMay 21, 2025 12:58:11 ago (+0/-0)
Chat responds:
Yes, in the Byzantine Empire, ethnic and religious minorities often faced restrictions or informal barriers when it came to occupations. These restrictions were not always codified in law but were enforced through custom, guild systems, or religious edicts.
---
1. Jews
Jews lived in the Byzantine Empire for centuries, often in segregated communities.
They were frequently restricted from holding public office, especially under Christian emperors.
They were sometimes barred from joining guilds, which limited their access to trades and crafts regulated by those organizations.
As a result, Jewish communities often specialized in moneylending, medicine, trade, or dyeing, occupations less controlled by guilds or with lower social status.
Certain emperors, like Justinian I, passed laws that banned Jews from teaching or holding high positions in education or law.
---
2. Heretics and Non-Orthodox Christians
People who adhered to non-Chalcedonian Christian beliefs (e.g., Monophysites, Nestorians) or were deemed heretical by the Orthodox Church could be excluded from public office or prominent guilds.
Religious conformity was closely tied to access to state support, jobs in administration, and military officer roles.
---
3. Muslims
Muslim merchants and diplomats were occasionally welcomed, especially during periods of relative peace with Islamic states, but there was no large settled Muslim population in core Byzantine territory until very late.
Where Muslims were present in border regions or as captives/slaves, they were not allowed to hold positions of authority, and conversion was often expected.
---
4. Ethnic Minorities
Ethnic minorities such as Slavs, Armenians, Syrians, and Arabs lived within the empire.
Armenians, for example, often served in the military and rose to high ranks (even emperors like Basil I were of Armenian origin).
However, in some periods, ethnic minorities faced suspicion, especially if their kin were part of rival states.
Occupation restrictions were usually less about ethnicity and more tied to religious alignment and loyalty to the emperor.
---
Summary
In short, religion played a larger role than ethnicity in occupational restrictions. Non-Orthodox groups, especially Jews and declared heretics, faced barriers to many professions—particularly those involving public authority, law, guild membership, or education. However, informal social prejudices and political tensions also influenced which groups had access to specific economic roles.
Want a table of who could or couldn’t do what in different centuries? Or how this evolved after Iconoclasm or the Fourth Crusade?
Learn to ask real questions, not whatever stupid shit you said to it to get the answer you want.
[ + ] 2plus2equals5
[ - ] 2plus2equals5 [op] 1 point 13 hoursMay 21, 2025 13:04:47 ago (+1/-0)*
(hint: death sentence for 'antisemetism')
Some questions answer themselves. lol GIGO
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 11 hoursMay 21, 2025 14:21:42 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Her0n
[ - ] Her0n 0 points 11 hoursMay 21, 2025 14:25:31 ago (+0/-0)
Show me what you got my man, I'm interested.
FYI chat doesn't 404 at all, it talks about the decree of peace.
[ + ] 2plus2equals5
[ - ] 2plus2equals5 [op] 1 point 9 hoursMay 21, 2025 17:02:08 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Ducktalesooo000ooo
[ - ] Ducktalesooo000ooo -1 points 13 hoursMay 21, 2025 12:08:50 ago (+0/-1)
Someone wants a nice gentle banning.