they are white just like and greeks and italians. do you even know what a southern european is? and even there are parts in northern spain in which can find blue and green eyed ppl and blondes too. granted is small population but they do have them. unlike the greeks for example who are purely Mediterranean people
I know what they are. They are intermediate to us and middle easterners, behaviorally (see hajnal line) and genetically. Whiteness is a cline not a binary distinction. Im “big tent” white so I will let italians, greeks and iberians in the door. But I know they have a set of problems that scandinavians don’t have . Thats why their countries are less efficient and they have lower IQs
Middle easterners, north africans have all the same ancestral racial components we north europeans do. The difference is proportions. The proportions of S. Europeans are more similar to middle easterners.
are parts in northern spain in which can find blue and green eyed ppl and blondes too. granted is small population
Thats right statistics matter. I don’t give a shit about their eye color if they can build a great country. But south europe is full of mediocre countries with corrupt governments and its not an accident. They are less white. The “signal” for whiteness is weak.
North Euros are heavily descended from Corded Ware culture. South europe, not so much. Even the greeks are not “purely mediterranean”, they are 25% slav. Iberians have a north african component as well.
And its not just about who you come from but how youve been living for the past few thousand years. It doesn’t seem like warm balmy climates make for efficient hard working people!
People who don't consider Meds as Whites are shooting themselves in the foot. Weren't they the first to build civilizations in Europe? Nords were destroying at a time when Meds were building. Because they got lazy in the past 5 centuries means suddenly they are racially inferior? Or because they have light touches of North African/Asian dna makes them non-Whites when genetically they still cluster with the rest of the continent? What a moronic view.
No one would be arguing with you if they only had light touches of shit skin DNA. The mohammedans controlled that area for a long time. The people there are not the people that were there.
[ - ] Eliack 1 point 1 monthApr 28, 2025 16:31:30 ago (+2/-1)
Have you actually checked the dna results? The most Muslim dna i have seen in Spain is 12% in Granada region. Which is unsurprising since most Muslims there were converted locals, who would be expelled later anyway.
I completely understand where you're coming from. 12% in the highest concentrations in a single region doesn't sound too crazy on paper. This isn't the whole story, though.
Just looking at the 12% number, for every no nigger there's a quarter nigger running around. No one thinks the pure celts living in Portugal for a millennium are niggers. But, there are definitely Spaniards who don't make the cut at whiteness. 12% is too high. The majority of the people there are not quite the same as pre-occupation.
Remember, for every AOC who might fool you from a distance, there's a Jeb's wife. In this case, both of them are still niggers.
they are white, not anglo white.europe doesnt have natural niggers,never had. even the muslims that occupied spain were tanned skinned and btw parts of eastern europe were under islam too and these like hungarians are still white.
That's a nice opinion, I guess? Niggers just means not white in this context, and you know this yet talked all that fag shit. You mean today's video games and movies are lying about knight nigger of Camelot? No, you don't say?
And the other part, it's almost like the niggers spent more time fucking in certain conquered lands than others, maybe?
How about this to counter your fag talk insult: You don't not know what you're talking about, just not enough to be taken seriously.
the only fag here is you that retort to insults because you dont anything else of value to apport to the conversation. its sad that you are this stupid too bad for you. grow up and get a book and learn something because right now you are sounding stupid.
Im going to wade in here because Im interested in the subject. As I said in the other comment “Whiteness” is a cline. The problem middle easterners, north africans, afghans, etc is not that they are mixed with niggers. That might be true in some places but its not really the source of the problem in some place like syria. All these groups may be termed “caucasoid” or “western eurasia” and are related relative to all other groups like chinks, dots, niggers, etc.
All these caucasoid groups are decended from the same ancestral groups, which were ultimately (mostly) european. All of those ancestral groups are in all caucasoid groups. At some point during the mesolithic, european hunter gatherers moved into the middle east and mixed with middle eastern hunter gatherers and then mixed groups re-entered europe 8000 years ago. So we have the same DNA in different proportions. Something similar happened to east eurasians which have been genetically split off from caucasians since 35 or 40 kya.
It seems that harsh northern climates select for higher IQs and certain other “white” behavioral traits like monogamy and patrilineality. Eventually some of those people move into warmer climates and do very well reproductively because of milder climate and weak competition from locals. Presumably that is how great empire arose in places like egypt. The pyramid builders were more european like (caucasus hunter gatherer derived) than taforalt or natufian populations that preceded them (genetically) . But there may be a dysgenic process or processes that occurs when civilizations become too successful. Maybe its a bad idea to feed everybody. You already know I believe polygyny has a negative effect. The ME-NA region has become very arid in the last several thousand years which would have promoted polygyny.
Nords were destroying at a time when Meds were building.
I don’t think that nords should be termed destroyers. That stereotype was likely spread by christians because the vikings were pagan. They were not particularly destructive compared to other groups like Greeks or Babylonians.
The megaliths were built in europe a bit earlier than the pyramids. The cities of cucuteni trypillia (Ukraine) were as large as any in the fertile crescent. But I do think that mediterraneans built more and traded more from the neolitihic onward, because there was a higher population density in those areas. I believe that cultural progress must be tied to population density (among other factors)
The Rh- blood group originators came from Indo Asia about 35,000 years ago. They were first the Wheel and the bronze age and red heads were among them. They spread West and South and had oral, musical knowledge that was passed down. Eventually, the Roman's would wipe their religion and traditions from the Earth and replace it with Odin's pantheon, but that was contemporary with Christianity; effectively twice wiping out the knowledge of "real people". The rest are lesser hominids that science refuses to classify.
Why? White people domesticated themselves by killing murderers, rapists and pedos. Eliminating criminals from the gene pool is what results in Whiteness.
See the domesticated fox experiments or the rat utopia experiments.
White people civilized themselves. The rest never have and now being civilized is a disadvantage and the populace is being subjected to "monetization" genetics... creating the best debt slaves and debt slavery systems. Domestication is not on the table anymore and true civilization will never be allowed because it isn't profitable to have a safe, peaceful society.
I have no idea what the origin of Rh- is? Can you cite any sources on this subject? Im very skeptical on origin of the Wheel and bronze use being at 35 kya. Those things happened around 3500 - 5000 ya. Has someone established a correlation between red haired gene and Rh- status?
You are assuming that a single genetic population with a continuity of culture lasted for 35,000 years and theres nothing like that in europe or anywhere else. Theres too much genetic and cultural turnover during that period.
Why? White people domesticated themselves by killing murderers, rapists and pedos. Eliminating criminals from the gene pool is what results in Whiteness.
I agree. White people domesticated themselves, at least in part. Climate was clearly another major factor in our differences from blacks for example.
See the domesticated fox experiments or the rat utopia experiments.
Im aware of these experiments.
White people civilized themselves. The rest never have and now being civilized is a disadvantage and the populace is being subjected to "monetization" genetics... creating the best debt slaves and debt slavery systems. Domestication is not on the table anymore and true civilization will never be allowed because it isn't profitable to have a safe, peaceful society.
The censorship surrounding the rh- group is extreme. Your going to have to come to your own conclusions. As to the wheel and bronze age, I did not intend to suggest they came from 35,000 years ago, but that the people who made them did.
When they did, they swept out of their territory and went all over very fast. Ghenghis Khan... red head. King Tut... red head. Etc.
Yes, a mix resulted, but the rh- groups from the North are what brought the sweeping, civilizing changes that spread across the known world.
All these caucasoid groups are descended from the same ancestral groups, which were ultimately (mostly) european. At some point during the mesolithic, european hunter gatherers moved into the middle east and mixed with middle eastern hunter gatherers and then mixed groups re-entered europe 8000 years ago
Biased much? There was WAY more migration to Europe from Middle East than the other way around. In fact we have no recorded large wave migration from outside Europe during the aformentioned era. The only significant wave i can think of is the Indo-European one, but even then 1)they were only partially European (half of their genome was CHG which was of Middle Eastern origin!!!) and 2)the impact they left were small (i have only about 10% of the dna for reference). See for yourself, i have done a dna test and have little European related heritage: https://files.catbox.moe/ehdpka.png . My Gedmatch kit number is KU8743591 if you want to play around.
Put simply, modern day Europeans are a mix of native Hunter-Gatherers and Western Asians (Caucasus & Anatolia & Levant). Whereas Western Asians (and especially Middle Easterners) themselves are quite divergent, although with little European ancestry. You are essentially our younger cousins, even though it apparently comes hard to swallow for some of you... for some reason.
The pyramid builders were more european like
Really, did every single advanced civilization in Middle East owe their success to noticeable input from Caucasus/Europe??? This is a claim you made from your "common sense" or "blurry memory", not any academic paper which you have at the moment. Civilization first emerged in this geography due to a mix of propitious factors: mostly mild climate, arable lands and rivers.
But there may be a dysgenic process or processes that occurs when civilizations become too successful
You mentioned one reason, environmental change (although you are right for mostly the wrong reason). Another would be the curse of success, recall "good times make weak men". Ibn Khaldun famously figured this out long ago (cycles of civilizations), and it's uncanny to me seeing it happen in the West in real time.
The megaliths were built in europe a bit earlier than the pyramids
But only one is claimed to have been built by the aliens, curious. I could stack 2 stones on top of each other and claim to be a contender too, if your bar is so low.
The cities of cucuteni trypillia (Ukraine) were as large as any in the fertile crescent
The exception that proves the rule. But even so, their development (if at all, in certain regards) was not on the same level as Fertile Crescent ones in terms of societal and technological advancements which are the key aspects of what we consider classical civilizations. So, impressive only for its relative time and geography.
Biased much? There was WAY more migration to Europe from Middle East than the other way around.
I don’t think this is biased. CHG is not of middle eastern origin. Its of caucasus origin which straddles asia and Europe. Georgians are not middle easterner. Middle easterners, north africans, turks, persians are all heavily descended from CHG, not the other way around. CHG was one of the bottleneck populations to survive the LGM in west eurasia as western eurasians had to move south to escape glaciation in the caucasus “refugium”. But the majority of the ancestors of CHG and Dzudzuana came from further north prior to the LGM, from something like aurignacion culture. They (mostly) split off from the same ancestry as WHG although some are arguing they have some “basal eurasian” contribution, nobody is suggesting thats the majority of their ancestry. Anatolian farmers also had mostly northern roots prior to the LGM.
See for yourself, i have done a dna test and have little European related heritage:
Yes I see your ancestry map. Most white europeans have relatively low contribution from late mesolithic WHG. It peaks in the baltics at ~50% but I think its 10% max in places like Britain. That map is probably calculating your contribution of magdalenian villabruna cluster WHG and maybe some EHG (WHGxANE hybrid), which is a very specific post LGM population. What you don’t understand is that even groups like natufian and taforalt have high contribution from europeans of the mesolithic and upper paleolithic. Another hint at this is that WHG’s main Y haplogroup (I) and CHG’s main haplogroup (J) diverged from haplogroup IJ pre-LGM.
Put simply, modern day Europeans are a mix of native Hunter-Gatherers and Western Asians (Caucasus & Anatolia & Levant). Whereas Western Asians (and especially Middle Easterners) themselves are quite divergent, although with little European ancestry.
West Eurasian didn’t know where the border between europe and asia was. But west eurasians diverged from east eurasians 45-50 kya, just after the divergence of “basal eurasians” (notable for lack of neanederthal DNA) from all other eurasians. Subsequently west eurasians split off into ANE, CHG and WHG. Elements of all three moved into the ME and NA, mixing with Basal Eurasians. Now middle easterners have more basal eurasian than norther europeans, to be sure. But they still have majority west eurasian ancestry from people who lived north of the middle east and ultimately north of the caucasus, prior to the LGM
Now we can argue which direction genetic flow is going till the cows come home. I happen to embrace the multiregional evolutionary hypothesis which rejects a strict interpretation of OOA. I think there was continuous exchange of genetics between africa and east and west eurasia among homo species for at least 2 million years. And I believe the major “innovations” to homo species were coming from homos living in colder climates, including greater reliance on meat/hunting and higher IQs to survive harsh winters. Which areas were sufficiently cold for higher IQ selection would depend on the climate conditions of the era. The pre-neolithic indigenous indian populations were too far south to advance farther than aussie abos and central africans.
MENA populations were much darker than they are today before the neolithic, as were SE Asians (who weren’t even chinky). Mutations in pigmentation from the European/siberian region (Siberia was dominated by West Eurasian related ANE) were the source of the light skin mutations in caucasoids today, particularly SLC-24A5 and SLC-45A2. European genetics lightened the pigmentation of middle easterners.
Really, did every single advanced civilization in Middle East owe their success to noticeable input from Caucasus/Europe???
Yes, indirectly. The elites who ruled ancient egypt had levantine roots which were ultimately heavily derived from CHG. There are plenty of papers establishing that modern MENA populations are heavily derived from CHG and older pre-Lgm european migrations.
Another would be the curse of success, recall "good times make weak men".
Yeah I agree, we see that sort of thing going on right now with welfare. I am right about polygyny. Polygyny was not favorable in colder more humid european climates. Its probably the main reason for Europe’s genetic success over the ME in the last several thousand years.
But only one is claimed to have been built by the aliens, curious. I could stack 2 stones on top of each other and claim to be a contender too, if your bar is so low.
You’re literally trying to denigrate megalith culture. Im not the biased one here.
The exception that proves the rule.
Do better! Thats a cop out.
The same phenomenon occured in E. Eurasia and even in pre-columbian america. Cold climates are the “engine” of innovation in homos/humans and when smarter cold climate people move into warmer climes they take over/outbreed locals (India is another example) and have more resources to live at higher populations densities which accelerates cultural development.
I have a bad habit of using Caucasian and Middle Eastern interchangeably, in large because the 2 populations are intertwined/close enough that they are sometimes considered regional variants of a broader Iran-Caucasus genetic continuum rather than fundamentally separate populations. I know geographically this place belongs to both Europe and Asia, but - while possessing their own unique differences - modern Caucasian people like Georgians still cluster way closer to Middle Eastern populations than to Europeans. Many autosomal dna tests even lazily clump them together. Heck, my own results are miles closer to Georgians than to you Europeans.
The majority of the ancestors of CHG, Dzudzuana and Anatolian farmers came from further north prior to the LGM
I'm pretty sure that the bulk of their ancestry is pre-LGM even if their supposed roots are from the North. Otherwise you may as claim that modern Hungarians are of Asiatic stock, when they are genetically identical to their neighbors. To think of, you have Pajeets make this claim about themselves too. "We wuz originally Aryans from Europe, and it still makes up most of our genes!"
Although either way we shouldn't be bothered, we are bound to our ancestors rather than the land they first emerged from. It's the same to me whether my ancestors came from Europe or Asia, and i hope this holds true for you as well.
Middle easterners, north africans, turks, persians are all heavily descended from CHG
Reality check: CHG is most present in the proximity of Caucasus, outside it seldom even reaches a quarter. Most of the time the exaggarated CHG figures are due to models being unable to differentiate it from Neolithic Iranian impact. Don't try too hard, just Google dna results of other plebs. On my part, my CHG hovers around 10-15%. I mean come on, between Anatolian, Zagrosian, Hunter-Gatherer, etc, how much space does that leave us with for CHG?
Your map is probably calculating a very specific post LGM population
I already handed over my dna data to you, which i believe to be an excellent example for our case. Here are a few more results from some of the most popular calculators: Eurogenes:12.31% Gedrosia:13.48% PuntDNAL:9.3%
groups like natufian and taforalt have high contribution from europeans of the mesolithic and upper paleolithic
Why are so many of your claims in reverse? It's as if a Japanese person is telling me that East Asians have high amount of Jap contribution, and not the other way around. Do you see how many things are wrong with that statement? Your claims boil down to most of humanity originating in Europe, then migrating to the rest of the world and making up most of their genome, good Lord. For someone who loves following the mainstream academia, you sure contradict it a lot. Normally i can't blame you for your mistakes since your environment (greatest country on Earth) doesn't provide enough intellectual stimulation to push you ahead past a certain point, but this one example so flagrantly defies common sense. Ironically you are the greatest anti-racist on this platform, since according to you the 20 figures distance between a Moroccan and Spaniard is merely illusory since they are both mostly of European stock (no need to provide a major paper, just trust me!)
And I believe the major “innovations” to homo species were coming from homos living in colder climates
Except cold isn't the only pressure to innovate, and plenty of innovations first emerged in warm areas. There might have been instances where Northerners brought high civilization to Southerners, but there's no reason to believe this was the rule. In fact it was the latter who brought it to the former in our recorded history. You make interesting theories Hel, though unfortunately they often don't go beyond being "fascinating what if's".
The elites who ruled ancient egypt had levantine roots which were ultimately heavily derived from CHG
To claim that your average Egyptian/Mesopotomian/Assyrian etc was of largely Near Eastern stock while the ruling elites were of Caucasus requires immense evidence! We don't need "reasonable theories" (which are subjective anyway), we need genetic findings. But good luck with that.
A couple of tips by the way: I like to check my arguments with AI after i type them, you could do the same. And you should work on your prose, i see you are excited to have an opportunity to share the fruits of your extensive researches but it can become really painful winnowing and organizing your thoughts. "Each word is a sin which must justify its existence" is a good advice to start with.
I have a bad habit of using Caucasian and Middle Eastern interchangeably, in large because the 2 populations are intertwined/close enough that they are sometimes considered regional variants of a broader Iran-Caucasus genetic continuum rather than fundamentally separate populations.
Modern middle eastern people are heavily descended from CHG as are Europeans to a lesser extent. That is why georgians cluster with middle easterners. We began to argue about this because I asserted that middle easterners were seeded by ancient europeans which you felt was unsupportable. If we are talking about CHG, they lived right on the border ( satsurblia cluster and dzudzuana are maybe 50 miles into Asia) but I feel that the spirit of my argument holds especially when you consider CHG comes from an even more northerly pre-LGM population
I'm pretty sure that the bulk of their ancestry is pre-LGM even if their supposed roots are from the North. Otherwise you may as claim that modern Hungarians are of Asiatic stock,
Im not sure what you mean here. Every group has pre-LGM roots. “Hun”-garians are an interesting case which we will leave till another day.
To think of, you have Pajeets make this claim about themselves too. "We wuz originally Aryans from Europe, and it still makes up most of our genes!"
This is literally true of some upper caste indians.
Reality check: CHG is most present in the proximity of Caucasus, outside it seldom even reaches a quarter. Most of the time the exaggarated CHG figures are due to models being unable to differentiate it from Neolithic Iranian impact. Don't try too hard, just Google dna results of other plebs. On my part, my CHG hovers around 10-15%. I mean come on, between Anatolian, Zagrosian, Hunter-Gatherer, etc, how much space does that leave us with for CHG?
No I don’t think this is right. If we are talking about who modern groups are descended from in the mesolithic, middle easterners are heavily descended from CHG or groups closely related to CHG. Zagros neolithic farmer is closely related to CHG with a little extra ANE in it, I think. My understanding is that anatolian farmer is a mix of WHG with some natufian like ancestry. Middle easterners are mainly a mix of CHG and natufian (natufian containing the non-european basal eurasian component). Its arbitrary which era/population your ancestry analysis will trace you to, but some of these ancestries are not mutually exclusive, like caucasus and zagros.
Eurogenes:12.31% Gedrosia:13.48% PuntDNAL:9.3%
Are these your CHG percentages from 3 different genetic applications? I still say most of your named components will have high affinity with a CHG/Dzudzuana type ancestry with some ancestry also coming from ANE, a little WHG, and some mystery meat that was high in natufians which we call basal eurasian.
Why are so many of your claims in reverse? It's as if a Japanese person is telling me that East Asians have high amount of Jap contribution, and not the other way around. Do you see how many things are wrong with that statement? Your claims boil down to most of humanity originating in Europe, then migrating to the rest of the world.
I can make a good case for this. Not in anyway that these faggots would appreciate because they think Margret Thatcher was walking around europe 1 million years ago and she fucked a monkey and voila: black people were born. Of course thats not true— there werent any people who looked or acted like whites until maybe 10kya, give or take.
But I can argue that homo sapien, neanderthal, denisovan and heidelbergensis all descended from homo antecessor, a european species of homo. Homo antecessor was not a german, or a frenchman. He was not us. But whether you are talking about hominins from the early paleolithic or more modern groups of the mesolithic and neolithic, there is north to south migration. Its arbitrary to declare the overall direction of human migration to be north-to-south in the same way that OoA is arbitrary. But its not arbitrary to say that most of the innovations in the homonin population emerged in colder climates and not the tropics. Hunting for instance was pioneered in cold climates almost certainly because cold climates have a lack of plant food for extended portions of the year. Hunting as a major food strategy likely provided the biggest impetus for an increase in intellect beyond the other great apes (who hunt very little and badly). High IQ and monogamy both are positively corellated to distance from the equator. This is true in both west and east eurasia, and theres a ton of evidence that indigenous people living in the subtropical and tropical zones like the middle east, india and south east asia were largely replaced by people from colder climates during the neolithic and later.
And Im not alone in saying this sort of thing. There is absolutely support for this among academics. Multiregional human evolution is gaining steam as is Cold Winters theory. I do not blindly accept “consensus” narratives especially in a field like this one. I look for alternative hypotheses and I choose the one that makes sense to me. Most of the folks here reject all modern science as totally false, whereas I know that its only partially corrupt and frequently corrects itself in time. So I don’t trust scientists who are frequently subject to the whims of political fads. I make educated guesses.
Normally i can't blame you for your mistakes since your environment (greatest country on Earth) doesn't provide enough intellectual stimulation to push you ahead past a certain point, but this one example so flagrantly defies common sense.
This is an unworthy argument.
Ironically you are the greatest anti-racist on this platform, since according to you the 20 figures distance between a Moroccan and Spaniard is merely illusory since they are both mostly of European stock
Its hard to overstate how much more related I am to a moroccan than a nigger. That is why I say Whiteness is a cline and it is arbitrary where you draw its boundaries. There is heavy relatedness among West Eurasians (including north africans) relative to all other groups .
I am still a racist because I recognize that theres a behavioral signal that makes White nations “nice” nations to live in, and that signal is strongest in northern europe. And this signal isn’t determined by how many generations removed you are from a German, its determined by what life strategy you have pursued in those intervening generations. The mediterranean has not been the most eugenic place to live over the last couple thousand years— northern europe has been better for producing intellegent, non-corrupt, non-violent, hard working people. Selection for behavioral traits among human populations happens far more rapidly than I had previously thought. We can debate which factors were at play in the eugenics/dysgenics of various caucasian populations but clearly many of them have to do with climate.
Except cold isn't the only pressure to innovate,
No, there is wet vs dry. Elevation may be another one. Being land locked vs living on an ocean/sea/river. In modern times, governments and legal systems have become a selective pressure.
There might have been instances where Northerners brought high civilization to Southerners, but there's no reason to believe this was the rule.
This is not what I am arguing. Im arguing that groups who evolve hi IQs in high latitudes move to warmer latitudes where they experience an increase in population density and an increase in leisure time. This results in an acceleration of cultural/technological advances which lead to a higher volume of impressive artifacts in the archeological record. But the warmer latitudes do not cause the increase in intellect.
And perhaps when the society experiences too much prosperity, mortality goes down and “inferior” individuals survive (dysgenics). Alternatively more intelligent people are mixing with less intelligent groups in their region (like what happened in india) Its probably some of both. But something dysgenic happened in mesopotamia and Egypt and even Greece. Clearly. They ain’t building shit. Let me know your theory as to why this occured.
To claim that your average Egyptian/Mesopotomian/Assyrian etc was of largely Near Eastern stock while the ruling elites were of Caucasus requires immense evidence!
We have it. Natufians were replaced by anatolian farmers and caucasus like people. There were additional waves of steppe ancestry. Hell, you have R1b “ANE/steppe” lineages in pharoahs like Tutenkhamon and Akenaton and even as far south as Chad! That is siberian ancestry. You have Mycenaean ancestry in the Philistines.
The same thing occured in SE Asia. All the languages they speak like Thai and austronesian and austroasiatic and Hmong originated from a migration from south china. Those languages were almost all replaced in south china by the languages of north china (early chinese). The original people of SE Asia prior to the agricultural revolution were abos similar to indigenous aussies and andaman islanders. The North produces successive waves of ever smarter people who migrate south, take shit over and mix with the locals. This is definitely a world wide trend.
And you should work on your prose, i see you are excited to have an opportunity to share the fruits of your extensive researches but it can become really painful winnowing and organizing your thoughts.
I think this is at least somewhat true. I hate writing in these little boxes— its hard to edit.
So you remember this too? I remember it was like 1994 or 1995 for about two days, the whole western USA was out and the official reason was a squirrel shorted the ONE connection to everything. Right.
I have looked for information on this over the years and been able to find very very little.
Not in Ohio. There were bad storms in my area about 5 years ago and the nog areas were fixed last. Cops were pissed at power company for not getting their shit together faster and they had to run convoy patrols for 3 nights.
It was precisely Ohio I was thinking about. Last year a huge chunk of Dayton and surrounding areas had the power taken out. Springfield and Troy st weren't touched and the west side got their power back within a few hours while we had no power for about almost 2 days. Survivable except the well runs on an electric pump. I can live without electric fine enough it's water that's the bitch of it.
Cops were pissed at power company for not getting their shit together faster and they had to run convoy patrols for 3 nights.
Must be why they changed whose areas get done first.
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I know what they are. They are intermediate to us and middle easterners, behaviorally (see hajnal line) and genetically. Whiteness is a cline not a binary distinction. Im “big tent” white so I will let italians, greeks and iberians in the door. But I know they have a set of problems that scandinavians don’t have . Thats why their countries are less efficient and they have lower IQs
Middle easterners, north africans have all the same ancestral racial components we north europeans do. The difference is proportions. The proportions of S. Europeans are more similar to middle easterners.
Thats right statistics matter. I don’t give a shit about their eye color if they can build a great country. But south europe is full of mediocre countries with corrupt governments and its not an accident. They are less white. The “signal” for whiteness is weak.
North Euros are heavily descended from Corded Ware culture. South europe, not so much. Even the greeks are not “purely mediterranean”, they are 25% slav. Iberians have a north african component as well.
And its not just about who you come from but how youve been living for the past few thousand years. It doesn’t seem like warm balmy climates make for efficient hard working people!
[ + ] Ragnar
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[ - ] ruck_feddit 1 point 1 monthApr 28, 2025 14:26:23 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Eliack
[ - ] Eliack 1 point 1 monthApr 28, 2025 16:31:30 ago (+2/-1)
[ + ] ruck_feddit
[ - ] ruck_feddit 1 point 1 monthApr 28, 2025 17:15:46 ago (+1/-0)
Just looking at the 12% number, for every no nigger there's a quarter nigger running around. No one thinks the pure celts living in Portugal for a millennium are niggers. But, there are definitely Spaniards who don't make the cut at whiteness. 12% is too high. The majority of the people there are not quite the same as pre-occupation.
Remember, for every AOC who might fool you from a distance, there's a Jeb's wife. In this case, both of them are still niggers.
[ + ] dosvydanya_freedomz
[ - ] dosvydanya_freedomz [op] 0 points 1 monthApr 28, 2025 17:44:33 ago (+1/-1)
you dont know what you are talking about
[ + ] ruck_feddit
[ - ] ruck_feddit -1 points 1 monthApr 28, 2025 18:10:43 ago (+1/-2)
And the other part, it's almost like the niggers spent more time fucking in certain conquered lands than others, maybe?
How about this to counter your fag talk insult: You don't not know what you're talking about, just not enough to be taken seriously.
[ + ] dosvydanya_freedomz
[ - ] dosvydanya_freedomz [op] 0 points 1 monthApr 28, 2025 18:54:22 ago (+1/-1)
[ + ] ruck_feddit
[ - ] ruck_feddit 0 points 1 monthApr 28, 2025 19:30:30 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 1 monthApr 29, 2025 18:46:00 ago (+0/-0)*
All these caucasoid groups are decended from the same ancestral groups, which were ultimately (mostly) european. All of those ancestral groups are in all caucasoid groups. At some point during the mesolithic, european hunter gatherers moved into the middle east and mixed with middle eastern hunter gatherers and then mixed groups re-entered europe 8000 years ago. So we have the same DNA in different proportions. Something similar happened to east eurasians which have been genetically split off from caucasians since 35 or 40 kya.
It seems that harsh northern climates select for higher IQs and certain other “white” behavioral traits like monogamy and patrilineality. Eventually some of those people move into warmer climates and do very well reproductively because of milder climate and weak competition from locals. Presumably that is how great empire arose in places like egypt. The pyramid builders were more european like (caucasus hunter gatherer derived) than taforalt or natufian populations that preceded them (genetically) . But there may be a dysgenic process or processes that occurs when civilizations become too successful. Maybe its a bad idea to feed everybody. You already know I believe polygyny has a negative effect. The ME-NA region has become very arid in the last several thousand years which would have promoted polygyny.
I don’t think that nords should be termed destroyers. That stereotype was likely spread by christians because the vikings were pagan. They were not particularly destructive compared to other groups like Greeks or Babylonians.
The megaliths were built in europe a bit earlier than the pyramids. The cities of cucuteni trypillia (Ukraine) were as large as any in the fertile crescent. But I do think that mediterraneans built more and traded more from the neolitihic onward, because there was a higher population density in those areas. I believe that cultural progress must be tied to population density (among other factors)
@ruck_feddit @dosvydanya_freedomz
[ + ] MeyerLansky
[ - ] MeyerLansky 0 points 1 monthApr 29, 2025 23:48:26 ago (+0/-0)
Why? White people domesticated themselves by killing murderers, rapists and pedos. Eliminating criminals from the gene pool is what results in Whiteness.
See the domesticated fox experiments or the rat utopia experiments.
White people civilized themselves. The rest never have and now being civilized is a disadvantage and the populace is being subjected to "monetization" genetics... creating the best debt slaves and debt slavery systems. Domestication is not on the table anymore and true civilization will never be allowed because it isn't profitable to have a safe, peaceful society.
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 1 monthApr 30, 2025 14:18:26 ago (+0/-0)
I have no idea what the origin of Rh- is? Can you cite any sources on this subject? Im very skeptical on origin of the Wheel and bronze use being at 35 kya. Those things happened around 3500 - 5000 ya. Has someone established a correlation between red haired gene and Rh- status?
You are assuming that a single genetic population with a continuity of culture lasted for 35,000 years and theres nothing like that in europe or anywhere else. Theres too much genetic and cultural turnover during that period.
I agree. White people domesticated themselves, at least in part. Climate was clearly another major factor in our differences from blacks for example.
Im aware of these experiments.
Right now we are living in a very dysgenic time
[ + ] MeyerLansky
[ - ] MeyerLansky 0 points 1 monthApr 30, 2025 16:22:19 ago (+0/-0)
When they did, they swept out of their territory and went all over very fast. Ghenghis Khan... red head. King Tut... red head. Etc.
Yes, a mix resulted, but the rh- groups from the North are what brought the sweeping, civilizing changes that spread across the known world.
[ + ] Eliack
[ - ] Eliack 0 points 1 monthApr 30, 2025 11:39:51 ago (+0/-0)*
Biased much? There was WAY more migration to Europe from Middle East than the other way around. In fact we have no recorded large wave migration from outside Europe during the aformentioned era. The only significant wave i can think of is the Indo-European one, but even then 1)they were only partially European (half of their genome was CHG which was of Middle Eastern origin!!!) and 2)the impact they left were small (i have only about 10% of the dna for reference).
See for yourself, i have done a dna test and have little European related heritage: https://files.catbox.moe/ehdpka.png
Put simply, modern day Europeans are a mix of native Hunter-Gatherers and Western Asians (Caucasus & Anatolia & Levant). Whereas Western Asians (and especially Middle Easterners) themselves are quite divergent, although with little European ancestry. You are essentially our younger cousins, even though it apparently comes hard to swallow for some of you... for some reason.
Really, did every single advanced civilization in Middle East owe their success to noticeable input from Caucasus/Europe??? This is a claim you made from your "common sense" or "blurry memory", not any academic paper which you have at the moment. Civilization first emerged in this geography due to a mix of propitious factors: mostly mild climate, arable lands and rivers.
You mentioned one reason, environmental change (although you are right for mostly the wrong reason). Another would be the curse of success, recall "good times make weak men". Ibn Khaldun famously figured this out long ago (cycles of civilizations), and it's uncanny to me seeing it happen in the West in real time.
But only one is claimed to have been built by the aliens, curious. I could stack 2 stones on top of each other and claim to be a contender too, if your bar is so low.
The exception that proves the rule. But even so, their development (if at all, in certain regards) was not on the same level as Fertile Crescent ones in terms of societal and technological advancements which are the key aspects of what we consider classical civilizations. So, impressive only for its relative time and geography.
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 1 monthApr 30, 2025 17:47:13 ago (+0/-0)
I don’t think this is biased. CHG is not of middle eastern origin. Its of caucasus origin which straddles asia and Europe. Georgians are not middle easterner. Middle easterners, north africans, turks, persians are all heavily descended from CHG, not the other way around. CHG was one of the bottleneck populations to survive the LGM in west eurasia as western eurasians had to move south to escape glaciation in the caucasus “refugium”. But the majority of the ancestors of CHG and Dzudzuana came from further north prior to the LGM, from something like aurignacion culture. They (mostly) split off from the same ancestry as WHG although some are arguing they have some “basal eurasian” contribution, nobody is suggesting thats the majority of their ancestry. Anatolian farmers also had mostly northern roots prior to the LGM.
Yes I see your ancestry map. Most white europeans have relatively low contribution from late mesolithic WHG. It peaks in the baltics at ~50% but I think its 10% max in places like Britain. That map is probably calculating your contribution of magdalenian villabruna cluster WHG and maybe some EHG (WHGxANE hybrid), which is a very specific post LGM population. What you don’t understand is that even groups like natufian and taforalt have high contribution from europeans of the mesolithic and upper paleolithic. Another hint at this is that WHG’s main Y haplogroup (I) and CHG’s main haplogroup (J) diverged from haplogroup IJ pre-LGM.
West Eurasian didn’t know where the border between europe and asia was. But west eurasians diverged from east eurasians 45-50 kya, just after the divergence of “basal eurasians” (notable for lack of neanederthal DNA) from all other eurasians. Subsequently west eurasians split off into ANE, CHG and WHG. Elements of all three moved into the ME and NA, mixing with Basal Eurasians. Now middle easterners have more basal eurasian than norther europeans, to be sure. But they still have majority west eurasian ancestry from people who lived north of the middle east and ultimately north of the caucasus, prior to the LGM
Now we can argue which direction genetic flow is going till the cows come home. I happen to embrace the multiregional evolutionary hypothesis which rejects a strict interpretation of OOA. I think there was continuous exchange of genetics between africa and east and west eurasia among homo species for at least 2 million years. And I believe the major “innovations” to homo species were coming from homos living in colder climates, including greater reliance on meat/hunting and higher IQs to survive harsh winters. Which areas were sufficiently cold for higher IQ selection would depend on the climate conditions of the era. The pre-neolithic indigenous indian populations were too far south to advance farther than aussie abos and central africans.
MENA populations were much darker than they are today before the neolithic, as were SE Asians (who weren’t even chinky). Mutations in pigmentation from the European/siberian region (Siberia was dominated by West Eurasian related ANE) were the source of the light skin mutations in caucasoids today, particularly SLC-24A5 and SLC-45A2. European genetics lightened the pigmentation of middle easterners.
Yes, indirectly. The elites who ruled ancient egypt had levantine roots which were ultimately heavily derived from CHG. There are plenty of papers establishing that modern MENA populations are heavily derived from CHG and older pre-Lgm european migrations.
Yeah I agree, we see that sort of thing going on right now with welfare. I am right about polygyny. Polygyny was not favorable in colder more humid european climates. Its probably the main reason for Europe’s genetic success over the ME in the last several thousand years.
You’re literally trying to denigrate megalith culture. Im not the biased one here.
Do better! Thats a cop out.
The same phenomenon occured in E. Eurasia and even in pre-columbian america. Cold climates are the “engine” of innovation in homos/humans and when smarter cold climate people move into warmer climes they take over/outbreed locals (India is another example) and have more resources to live at higher populations densities which accelerates cultural development.
[ + ] Eliack
[ - ] Eliack 0 points 1 monthMay 2, 2025 22:17:54 ago (+0/-0)
I have a bad habit of using Caucasian and Middle Eastern interchangeably, in large because the 2 populations are intertwined/close enough that they are sometimes considered regional variants of a broader Iran-Caucasus genetic continuum rather than fundamentally separate populations. I know geographically this place belongs to both Europe and Asia, but - while possessing their own unique differences - modern Caucasian people like Georgians still cluster way closer to Middle Eastern populations than to Europeans. Many autosomal dna tests even lazily clump them together. Heck, my own results are miles closer to Georgians than to you Europeans.
I'm pretty sure that the bulk of their ancestry is pre-LGM even if their supposed roots are from the North. Otherwise you may as claim that modern Hungarians are of Asiatic stock, when they are genetically identical to their neighbors. To think of, you have Pajeets make this claim about themselves too. "We wuz originally Aryans from Europe, and it still makes up most of our genes!"
Although either way we shouldn't be bothered, we are bound to our ancestors rather than the land they first emerged from. It's the same to me whether my ancestors came from Europe or Asia, and i hope this holds true for you as well.
Reality check: CHG is most present in the proximity of Caucasus, outside it seldom even reaches a quarter. Most of the time the exaggarated CHG figures are due to models being unable to differentiate it from Neolithic Iranian impact. Don't try too hard, just Google dna results of other plebs. On my part, my CHG hovers around 10-15%. I mean come on, between Anatolian, Zagrosian, Hunter-Gatherer, etc, how much space does that leave us with for CHG?
I already handed over my dna data to you, which i believe to be an excellent example for our case. Here are a few more results from some of the most popular calculators:
Eurogenes:12.31%
Gedrosia:13.48%
PuntDNAL:9.3%
Why are so many of your claims in reverse? It's as if a Japanese person is telling me that East Asians have high amount of Jap contribution, and not the other way around. Do you see how many things are wrong with that statement? Your claims boil down to most of humanity originating in Europe, then migrating to the rest of the world and making up most of their genome, good Lord. For someone who loves following the mainstream academia, you sure contradict it a lot. Normally i can't blame you for your mistakes since your environment (greatest country on Earth) doesn't provide enough intellectual stimulation to push you ahead past a certain point, but this one example so flagrantly defies common sense. Ironically you are the greatest anti-racist on this platform, since according to you the 20 figures distance between a Moroccan and Spaniard is merely illusory since they are both mostly of European stock (no need to provide a major paper, just trust me!)
Except cold isn't the only pressure to innovate, and plenty of innovations first emerged in warm areas. There might have been instances where Northerners brought high civilization to Southerners, but there's no reason to believe this was the rule. In fact it was the latter who brought it to the former in our recorded history. You make interesting theories Hel, though unfortunately they often don't go beyond being "fascinating what if's".
To claim that your average Egyptian/Mesopotomian/Assyrian etc was of largely Near Eastern stock while the ruling elites were of Caucasus requires immense evidence! We don't need "reasonable theories" (which are subjective anyway), we need genetic findings. But good luck with that.
A couple of tips by the way:
I like to check my arguments with AI after i type them, you could do the same.
And you should work on your prose, i see you are excited to have an opportunity to share the fruits of your extensive researches but it can become really painful winnowing and organizing your thoughts. "Each word is a sin which must justify its existence" is a good advice to start with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJzmSYtHdc0
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 1 monthMay 3, 2025 11:12:55 ago (+0/-0)
Modern middle eastern people are heavily descended from CHG as are Europeans to a lesser extent. That is why georgians cluster with middle easterners. We began to argue about this because I asserted that middle easterners were seeded by ancient europeans which you felt was unsupportable. If we are talking about CHG, they lived right on the border ( satsurblia cluster and dzudzuana are maybe 50 miles into Asia) but I feel that the spirit of my argument holds especially when you consider CHG comes from an even more northerly pre-LGM population
Im not sure what you mean here. Every group has pre-LGM roots. “Hun”-garians are an interesting case which we will leave till another day.
This is literally true of some upper caste indians.
No I don’t think this is right. If we are talking about who modern groups are descended from in the mesolithic, middle easterners are heavily descended from CHG or groups closely related to CHG. Zagros neolithic farmer is closely related to CHG with a little extra ANE in it, I think. My understanding is that anatolian farmer is a mix of WHG with some natufian like ancestry. Middle easterners are mainly a mix of CHG and natufian (natufian containing the non-european basal eurasian component). Its arbitrary which era/population your ancestry analysis will trace you to, but some of these ancestries are not mutually exclusive, like caucasus and zagros.
Are these your CHG percentages from 3 different genetic applications? I still say most of your named components will have high affinity with a CHG/Dzudzuana type ancestry with some ancestry also coming from ANE, a little WHG, and some mystery meat that was high in natufians which we call basal eurasian.
I can make a good case for this. Not in anyway that these faggots would appreciate because they think Margret Thatcher was walking around europe 1 million years ago and she fucked a monkey and voila: black people were born. Of course thats not true— there werent any people who looked or acted like whites until maybe 10kya, give or take.
But I can argue that homo sapien, neanderthal, denisovan and heidelbergensis all descended from homo antecessor, a european species of homo. Homo antecessor was not a german, or a frenchman. He was not us. But whether you are talking about hominins from the early paleolithic or more modern groups of the mesolithic and neolithic, there is north to south migration. Its arbitrary to declare the overall direction of human migration to be north-to-south in the same way that OoA is arbitrary. But its not arbitrary to say that most of the innovations in the homonin population emerged in colder climates and not the tropics. Hunting for instance was pioneered in cold climates almost certainly because cold climates have a lack of plant food for extended portions of the year. Hunting as a major food strategy likely provided the biggest impetus for an increase in intellect beyond the other great apes (who hunt very little and badly). High IQ and monogamy both are positively corellated to distance from the equator. This is true in both west and east eurasia, and theres a ton of evidence that indigenous people living in the subtropical and tropical zones like the middle east, india and south east asia were largely replaced by people from colder climates during the neolithic and later.
And Im not alone in saying this sort of thing. There is absolutely support for this among academics. Multiregional human evolution is gaining steam as is Cold Winters theory. I do not blindly accept “consensus” narratives especially in a field like this one. I look for alternative hypotheses and I choose the one that makes sense to me. Most of the folks here reject all modern science as totally false, whereas I know that its only partially corrupt and frequently corrects itself in time. So I don’t trust scientists who are frequently subject to the whims of political fads. I make educated guesses.
This is an unworthy argument.
Its hard to overstate how much more related I am to a moroccan than a nigger. That is why I say Whiteness is a cline and it is arbitrary where you draw its boundaries. There is heavy relatedness among West Eurasians (including north africans) relative to all other groups .
I am still a racist because I recognize that theres a behavioral signal that makes White nations “nice” nations to live in, and that signal is strongest in northern europe. And this signal isn’t determined by how many generations removed you are from a German, its determined by what life strategy you have pursued in those intervening generations. The mediterranean has not been the most eugenic place to live over the last couple thousand years— northern europe has been better for producing intellegent, non-corrupt, non-violent, hard working people. Selection for behavioral traits among human populations happens far more rapidly than I had previously thought. We can debate which factors were at play in the eugenics/dysgenics of various caucasian populations but clearly many of them have to do with climate.
No, there is wet vs dry. Elevation may be another one. Being land locked vs living on an ocean/sea/river. In modern times, governments and legal systems have become a selective pressure.
This is not what I am arguing. Im arguing that groups who evolve hi IQs in high latitudes move to warmer latitudes where they experience an increase in population density and an increase in leisure time. This results in an acceleration of cultural/technological advances which lead to a higher volume of impressive artifacts in the archeological record. But the warmer latitudes do not cause the increase in intellect.
And perhaps when the society experiences too much prosperity, mortality goes down and “inferior” individuals survive (dysgenics). Alternatively more intelligent people are mixing with less intelligent groups in their region (like what happened in india) Its probably some of both. But something dysgenic happened in mesopotamia and Egypt and even Greece. Clearly. They ain’t building shit. Let me know your theory as to why this occured.
We have it. Natufians were replaced by anatolian farmers and caucasus like people. There were additional waves of steppe ancestry. Hell, you have R1b “ANE/steppe” lineages in pharoahs like Tutenkhamon and Akenaton and even as far south as Chad! That is siberian ancestry. You have Mycenaean ancestry in the Philistines.
The same thing occured in SE Asia. All the languages they speak like Thai and austronesian and austroasiatic and Hmong originated from a migration from south china. Those languages were almost all replaced in south china by the languages of north china (early chinese). The original people of SE Asia prior to the agricultural revolution were abos similar to indigenous aussies and andaman islanders. The North produces successive waves of ever smarter people who migrate south, take shit over and mix with the locals. This is definitely a world wide trend.
I think this is at least somewhat true. I hate writing in these little boxes— its hard to edit.
[ + ] Ragnar
[ - ] Ragnar 0 points 1 monthApr 28, 2025 21:47:48 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] RafalGanowicz
[ - ] RafalGanowicz 4 points 1 monthApr 28, 2025 11:18:15 ago (+4/-0)
[ + ] dulcima
[ - ] dulcima 4 points 1 monthApr 28, 2025 08:59:41 ago (+4/-0)
[ + ] dosvydanya_freedomz
[ - ] dosvydanya_freedomz [op] 5 points 1 monthApr 28, 2025 09:01:19 ago (+5/-0)
[ + ] dulcima
[ - ] dulcima 4 points 1 monthApr 28, 2025 09:04:17 ago (+4/-0)
[ + ] dosvydanya_freedomz
[ - ] dosvydanya_freedomz [op] 2 points 1 monthApr 28, 2025 09:07:55 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] RobertJHarsh
[ - ] RobertJHarsh 3 points 1 monthApr 28, 2025 16:26:01 ago (+3/-0)
I am sure those are called CLOUDS. Tend to block the sun from solar panels.
[ + ] dassar
[ - ] dassar 0 points 1 monthApr 28, 2025 22:40:59 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Leveraction
[ - ] Leveraction 3 points 1 monthApr 28, 2025 11:37:39 ago (+3/-0)
[ + ] registered_bot
[ - ] registered_bot 2 points 1 monthApr 28, 2025 14:44:21 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] Crackinjokes
[ - ] Crackinjokes 3 points 1 monthApr 28, 2025 11:32:12 ago (+3/-0)
Same thing happened in the USA several decades ago.
[ + ] SocksOnCats
[ - ] SocksOnCats 2 points 1 monthApr 28, 2025 12:06:38 ago (+2/-0)
I have looked for information on this over the years and been able to find very very little.
[ + ] VitaminSieg
[ - ] VitaminSieg 1 point 1 monthApr 28, 2025 13:22:12 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] RobertJHarsh
[ - ] RobertJHarsh 0 points 1 monthApr 28, 2025 16:27:46 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Bonanza
[ - ] Bonanza 1 point 1 monthApr 28, 2025 19:44:59 ago (+1/-0)
https://files.catbox.moe/805p3n.png
[ + ] Bassman9000
[ - ] Bassman9000 1 point 1 monthApr 28, 2025 14:22:39 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] paul_neri
[ - ] paul_neri 0 points 1 monthApr 28, 2025 20:21:49 ago (+1/-1)
[ + ] paul_neri
[ - ] paul_neri 0 points 1 monthApr 28, 2025 20:20:57 ago (+1/-1)
[ + ] dosvydanya_freedomz
[ - ] dosvydanya_freedomz [op] 0 points 1 monthApr 28, 2025 17:41:20 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Eliack
[ - ] Eliack 0 points 1 monthApr 28, 2025 11:16:11 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Gowithit
[ - ] Gowithit 1 point 1 monthApr 28, 2025 12:38:17 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] RobertJHarsh
[ - ] RobertJHarsh 1 point 1 monthApr 28, 2025 16:31:44 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Gowithit
[ - ] Gowithit 0 points 1 monthApr 29, 2025 02:09:41 ago (+0/-0)
Must be why they changed whose areas get done first.
[ + ] RobertJHarsh
[ - ] RobertJHarsh 0 points 1 monthApr 29, 2025 09:26:35 ago (+0/-0)