This is the best take from a normie perspective. It could go either way. Catastrophic failure of the transmission and tail section did happen. Whether it was from an extremely rare type of mechanical failure with no warning at all or intentional sabotage of some sort. We'll see.
Excessive movement can cause the main rotor to contact the tail section sharing it off. Additionally apparently the tail rotor section connecting bolts had a service complaint on them from the FAA so they were unknown problem. So if the tail section had separated for either of those two reasons it would have quickly resulted in massive torque going from the engine to the main body frame which would have resulted in the engine being ripped out and the rotors flying off on their own with the engine as was seen and the fuselage dropping like a rock. For someone to plan that as a murderer they would have had to know that these people were going to take this helicopter ride which doesn't need to be booked in advance and usually isn't and so I think it's kind of doubtful.
Excessive movement can cause the main rotor to contact the tail section sharing it off.
That's clearly not what happened. You can see the main rotor flutter with perfect symmetry to the ground. Had the main rotor hit the tail the main rotor would have been damaged, even just a little.
Did you watch the link I posted? He addresses that theory, which is not a known problem for the Bell LongTanger as it is for other helicopters.
these people were going to take this helicopter ride which doesn't need to be booked in advance and usually isn't
These are booked in advance and usually are. I'm a pilot and know, personally, several air tour pilots that give air tours for the Dallas Skyline.
I'm not saying it definitely was anything. I am saying to wasn't "mass bumping" and the failure was instantaneous and without warning.
[ - ] FreeinTX [op] 1 point 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 09:13:17 ago (+1/-0)
Excessive movement can cause the main rotor to contact the tail section sharing it off.
That's clearly not what happened. You can see the main rotor flutter with perfect symmetry to the ground. Had the main rotor hit the tail the main rotor would have been damaged, even just a little.
Did you watch the link I posted? He addresses that theory, which is not a known problem for the Bell LongTanger as it is for other helicopters.
these people were going to take this helicopter ride which doesn't need to be booked in advance and usually isn't
These are booked in advance and usually are. I'm a pilot and know, personally, several air tour pilots that give air tours for the Dallas Skyline.
I'm not saying it definitely was anything. I am saying to wasn't "mass bumping" and the failure was instantaneous and without warning.
[ - ] dassar 1 point 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 17:25:03 ago (+1/-0)*
Turkish State Railways (TCDD) has ordered Velaro high-speed trains from Siemens Mobility.The first Velaro Turkey was ordered in 2013 and went into passenger service between Ankara and Konya in May 2015. At the same time, TCDD signed a second contract with Siemens for six eight-car high-speed trains. The last twelve eight-car Velaro TR trains were ordered in 2018 and 2019. The contract included maintenance, repair, and cleaning of the trains for a period of three years. With the delivery well ahead of schedule, a record time for the start of passenger operation could be achieved. On average, the time between the contract signing and passenger operation amounts to 24 months.
The original contract between Siemens mobility and Turkey was 2013 - 2019 for high speed trains (incl maintenance / repairs etc). The final delivery was completed in 2021. I'm calling this a bit desperate. This guy became CEO in 2022.
Exactly. Watch the following 180 degree corrections on major corporate moves this CEO was personally behind.
Just like JFK's assassination stopped all U.S. attempts to disclose that terrorist, Zionist-Jews stole U.S. Military weapons material, and technology to start Israel's rogue nuclear weapons program.
The 180 was nearly instant, and still followed to this day.
That'll happen with turbine engines that aren't properly maintained. Uncontained engine failures are a bitch. Mike Patey had an engine blow on a flight to Oshkosh a couple years back. Zero warning whatsoever. Flying along then BAM, prop's gone, oil all over the windscreen, and he had to dead-stick it into the nearest airport. Despite his impeccable maintenance, the working theory is that whoever owned the engine before he bought it let it suffer one or more hot-starts and didn't note them in the engine's history.
A hot-start is when the EGT rises above a certain threshold during startup, causing difficult to detect internal damage. Every turbine has a safety threshold for EGT where you're required to abort startup if it's exceeded, in order to prevent a full over-temp causing damage to the engine.
Given the busy schedules of tour flights like this, it's not out of the question to think that at some point a pilot let the EGT go too high on startup, either through inattentiveness or complacency. And if there were multiple hot starts in the engine's history, then a failure is all but guaranteed down the line.
Exhaust Gas Temperature, i.e. "how hot is what's coming out of the tailpipe." If it's above a certain point, that means the temperatures inside the engine are hot enough to damage critical parts. EGT generally peaks during startup when the engine first lights off, then goes back down a bit once there's more air flowing through the turbines and the compressor. It's a bit analogous to cylinder head temperature in a piston engine in that it's one of the critical things you have to keep an eye on and there are systems to alert you if there's an issue.
So if it's above a certain safety threshold, you immediately abort the startup, because that means there's either some kind of damage or an airflow restriction.
The owner of N390GM (a Beechcraft Premiere business jet) had a video a few years back where he talked about having to abort a startup due to a high EGT. The restriction was a swarm of bees that took up residence in the engine overnight. That was a $30,000 repair bill to get it all cleaned out.
[ - ] FreeinTX [op] 1 point 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 09:17:13 ago (+2/-1)
There are indicators on board the helicopter that would detect a oil pressure or oil temperature issue and a metal detection probe that would slow the engine or transmission damage internally.
This is not an even remotely common event. Helicopters do not just suddenly, with no warning, plunge out of the air. Can you even name the last helicopter to do it?
...the working theory is that whoever owned the engine before he bought it let it suffer one or more hot-starts and didn't note them in the engine's history.
That's not what happened. An AD was repeatedly missed on the transmission/gear reduction, and eventually a gear failed. This allowed the engine to free spool, over-rev, and it blew itself apart.
In regards to the helicopter, an engine failure should not have affected the transmission or mounts to such a degree that the entire transmission and rotor assembly separated from the aircraft. Helicopter engines do fail which typically leads to an autorotation and landing. The landing may be catastrophic, but what happened to this aircraft is quite unusual.
I was going by his initial thoughts from the original video. I missed this one since it was only three weeks ago. But either way, it failed without warning.
As to the helicopter, if it was an uncontained failure, that could have seized the transmission, causing the rotor hub to torque off. Not saying for sure that's what happened, and it would indeed be very uncommon, but crazier shit has happened. I know next to nothing about the Allison 250-C30P, but the overall model seems to be fairly reliable. However it was also a 20 year old aircraft (original AW date Feb. 11, 2005) with a ton of takeoffs/landings on it, so it could have easily been abused a bit too much.
However it was also a 20 year old aircraft (original AW date Feb. 11, 2005) with a ton of takeoffs/landings on it, so it could have easily been abused a bit too much.
Just because the airframe is 20 years old that doesn't mean the components are as well. One shop I worked at swapped out engines with factory rebuilds every 2000 hours. That was on piston airplanes and helicopters. We had some turbine helicopters, but they were new when I was new, and I wasn't there long enough to see what they did with the engines/transmissions over time.
[ + ] Ducktalesooo000ooo
[ - ] Ducktalesooo000ooo 7 points 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 00:30:21 ago (+7/-0)
[ + ] xmasskull
[ - ] xmasskull 5 points 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 00:23:12 ago (+5/-0)*
Well done, Great post!
[ + ] FreeinTX
[ - ] FreeinTX [op] 4 points 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 00:29:20 ago (+4/-0)*
https://youtu.be/U8Q8XuqlyMQ?si=5JaYLs-jXTm_DydP
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 17:07:21 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] dulcima
[ - ] dulcima 1 point 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 00:34:03 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] xmasskull
[ - ] xmasskull 1 point 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 00:52:18 ago (+1/-0)
Thanks,for the "head's up".
[ + ] Bottled_Tears
[ - ] Bottled_Tears 3 points 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 11:42:01 ago (+3/-0)
[ + ] Bottled_Tears
[ - ] Bottled_Tears 3 points 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 11:33:04 ago (+3/-0)
[ + ] WNwoman
[ - ] WNwoman 3 points 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 09:23:44 ago (+3/-0)
[ + ] Crackinjokes
[ - ] Crackinjokes 3 points 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 06:03:06 ago (+4/-1)
Excessive movement can cause the main rotor to contact the tail section sharing it off. Additionally apparently the tail rotor section connecting bolts had a service complaint on them from the FAA so they were unknown problem. So if the tail section had separated for either of those two reasons it would have quickly resulted in massive torque going from the engine to the main body frame which would have resulted in the engine being ripped out and the rotors flying off on their own with the engine as was seen and the fuselage dropping like a rock.
For someone to plan that as a murderer they would have had to know that these people were going to take this helicopter ride which doesn't need to be booked in advance and usually isn't and so I think it's kind of doubtful.
[ + ] FreeinTX
[ - ] FreeinTX [op] 5 points 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 09:13:05 ago (+5/-0)
That's clearly not what happened. You can see the main rotor flutter with perfect symmetry to the ground. Had the main rotor hit the tail the main rotor would have been damaged, even just a little.
Did you watch the link I posted? He addresses that theory, which is not a known problem for the Bell LongTanger as it is for other helicopters.
These are booked in advance and usually are. I'm a pilot and know, personally, several air tour pilots that give air tours for the Dallas Skyline.
I'm not saying it definitely was anything. I am saying to wasn't "mass bumping" and the failure was instantaneous and without warning.
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 1 point 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 08:51:04 ago (+2/-1)
Shit it really was murder!
[ + ] PotatoWhisperer2
[ - ] PotatoWhisperer2 1 point 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 14:06:57 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] FreeinTX
[ - ] FreeinTX [op] 1 point 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 09:13:17 ago (+1/-0)
That's clearly not what happened. You can see the main rotor flutter with perfect symmetry to the ground. Had the main rotor hit the tail the main rotor would have been damaged, even just a little.
Did you watch the link I posted? He addresses that theory, which is not a known problem for the Bell LongTanger as it is for other helicopters.
These are booked in advance and usually are. I'm a pilot and know, personally, several air tour pilots that give air tours for the Dallas Skyline.
I'm not saying it definitely was anything. I am saying to wasn't "mass bumping" and the failure was instantaneous and without warning.
[ + ] 2Drunk
[ - ] 2Drunk 1 point 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 20:30:03 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] FreeinTX
[ - ] FreeinTX [op] 0 points 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 22:35:08 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] edmundo
[ - ] edmundo 2 points 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 05:07:28 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] dassar
[ - ] dassar 1 point 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 17:25:03 ago (+1/-0)*
The original contract between Siemens mobility and Turkey was 2013 - 2019 for high speed trains (incl maintenance / repairs etc). The final delivery was completed in 2021.
I'm calling this a bit desperate.
This guy became CEO in 2022.
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 2 points 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 00:30:13 ago (+3/-1)
[ + ] jerkofalltrades
[ - ] jerkofalltrades 8 points 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 00:54:35 ago (+8/-0)
[ + ] KosherHiveKicker
[ - ] KosherHiveKicker 1 point 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 13:28:12 ago (+1/-0)
Just like JFK's assassination stopped all U.S. attempts to disclose that terrorist, Zionist-Jews stole U.S. Military weapons material, and technology to start Israel's rogue nuclear weapons program.
The 180 was nearly instant, and still followed to this day.
[ + ] FreeinTX
[ - ] FreeinTX [op] 4 points 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 00:33:08 ago (+4/-0)
Maybe. As of right now, it could go either way. It was flying along just fine until it wasn't. With no warning at all.
[ + ] uvulectomy
[ - ] uvulectomy 4 points 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 01:24:12 ago (+4/-0)
A hot-start is when the EGT rises above a certain threshold during startup, causing difficult to detect internal damage. Every turbine has a safety threshold for EGT where you're required to abort startup if it's exceeded, in order to prevent a full over-temp causing damage to the engine.
Given the busy schedules of tour flights like this, it's not out of the question to think that at some point a pilot let the EGT go too high on startup, either through inattentiveness or complacency. And if there were multiple hot starts in the engine's history, then a failure is all but guaranteed down the line.
[ + ] registered_bot
[ - ] registered_bot 4 points 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 02:11:52 ago (+4/-0)
[ + ] FreeinTX
[ - ] FreeinTX [op] 2 points 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 09:18:16 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] Clubberlang
[ - ] Clubberlang 2 points 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 09:55:05 ago (+2/-0)
Otherwise they'll just smile and act like they know what it means.
[ + ] uvulectomy
[ - ] uvulectomy 0 points 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 22:21:44 ago (+0/-0)
So if it's above a certain safety threshold, you immediately abort the startup, because that means there's either some kind of damage or an airflow restriction.
The owner of N390GM (a Beechcraft Premiere business jet) had a video a few years back where he talked about having to abort a startup due to a high EGT. The restriction was a swarm of bees that took up residence in the engine overnight. That was a $30,000 repair bill to get it all cleaned out.
[ + ] Clubberlang
[ - ] Clubberlang 0 points 1 weekApr 17, 2025 12:18:17 ago (+0/-0)
Gat dayyumm! Good 👍 info.
[ + ] FreeinTX
[ - ] FreeinTX [op] 1 point 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 09:17:13 ago (+2/-1)
This is not an even remotely common event. Helicopters do not just suddenly, with no warning, plunge out of the air. Can you even name the last helicopter to do it?
[ + ] Clubberlang
[ - ] Clubberlang 4 points 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 09:56:26 ago (+4/-0)
[ + ] FreeinTX
[ - ] FreeinTX [op] 2 points 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 10:06:05 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] Panic
[ - ] Panic 1 point 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 10:57:33 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] FreeinTX
[ - ] FreeinTX [op] -1 points 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 11:07:20 ago (+0/-1)
[ + ] Consensus_Reality
[ - ] Consensus_Reality 1 point 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 19:25:14 ago (+1/-0)
That's not what happened. An AD was repeatedly missed on the transmission/gear reduction, and eventually a gear failed. This allowed the engine to free spool, over-rev, and it blew itself apart.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA0HZ9kd6rc
In regards to the helicopter, an engine failure should not have affected the transmission or mounts to such a degree that the entire transmission and rotor assembly separated from the aircraft. Helicopter engines do fail which typically leads to an autorotation and landing. The landing may be catastrophic, but what happened to this aircraft is quite unusual.
[ + ] uvulectomy
[ - ] uvulectomy 0 points 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 22:12:03 ago (+0/-0)
As to the helicopter, if it was an uncontained failure, that could have seized the transmission, causing the rotor hub to torque off. Not saying for sure that's what happened, and it would indeed be very uncommon, but crazier shit has happened. I know next to nothing about the Allison 250-C30P, but the overall model seems to be fairly reliable. However it was also a 20 year old aircraft (original AW date Feb. 11, 2005) with a ton of takeoffs/landings on it, so it could have easily been abused a bit too much.
[ + ] Consensus_Reality
[ - ] Consensus_Reality 0 points 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 22:20:23 ago (+0/-0)
Just because the airframe is 20 years old that doesn't mean the components are as well. One shop I worked at swapped out engines with factory rebuilds every 2000 hours. That was on piston airplanes and helicopters. We had some turbine helicopters, but they were new when I was new, and I wasn't there long enough to see what they did with the engines/transmissions over time.
[ + ] CaptainMongo
[ - ] CaptainMongo 2 points 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 01:37:57 ago (+2/-0)
Me Or Thee It's Just Shit Happens, An Elite The Internet Goes Bananas
People Very Often Forget Low Bidder Gets The Maintenance Contract
[ + ] KosherHiveKicker
[ - ] KosherHiveKicker 1 point 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 13:24:50 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] dassar
[ - ] dassar 2 points 2 weeksApr 12, 2025 17:27:13 ago (+2/-0)
This guy had been CEO since 2022.