Last week I heard Sam Altman was affiliated with this crypto outfit called World App. I'm a big fan of Sam and I had a little money to make a risky investment with so I thought I'd just quickly drop $1000 on it. It's called world coin (WLD). Now, they are moving away from WLD as a "currency" but it's still central to the World App concept, so I figured what the hell.
I did not approach this with a greedy heart or an evil heart. I just wanted to make a fun little gamble.
Crypto is so regulated in all the wrong ways (intentionally) that it has turned my life into a living nightmare.
That thousand dollars turned into about $900 immediately after various fees.
$850 resides on coinbase who locked my account and won't let me access the money $20 is on coinex who won't let me withdraw it because i don't have enough btc to meet the minimum withdraw fee $20 got sent to the World App which has since removed WLD from it's wallet, effectively deleting the money.
None of the support people help, they all give you the runaround. So my money went to three entities, one lost my money, one stole my money, and the other is holding my money (e.g. investing it) indefinitely.
By the way if coinbase goes bankrupt all money users have in their wallets is considered an insecure loan and those users will lose their money.
I really want to be clear that I am only giving you the highlights here. Just do me a favor and if you ever meet someone who is a crypto developer please, without hesitation, punch them in their face immediately. This is for titstitstits.
$ I am for crypto as a concept but I believe it's being regulated in a bad way in order to protect the dollar. So perhaps I am doing exactly what they want but on a personal level I advise you to NEVER GET INVOLVED WITH CRYPTO IN ANY WAY. Until there is a free market anyways.
$ Just to be clear you do need to use an exchange in order to trade crypto. My money was in BTC and had only been on the exchange for a few hours before it got locked.
Nonsense. It's a ponzie scheme. Simple as. It's supposed to be a usable currency, but given that 10,000 bitcoin bought a pizza not all that long ago is proof that it's not a good currency. When 10,000 bitcoin bought a pizza, you were buying in at the top of the pyramid scheme. Those guys always make out good.
I think you just heard the word "ponzi scheme" somewhere and now you think everything you don't understand is a ponzi scheme. Kind of like how retarded Progressives think everything they don't understand is a far-right nazi fascist.
Here, let me help you out. A ponzi scheme is when person A borrows money from person B, then Person A borrows form person C to pay back person B. So... Where in crypto is anyone borrowing anything?
You can't answer the question because you don't understand the problem. There is no credit in crypto. Every transaction is final.
All you are doing here is misunderstanding the nature of transactions when resources are limited. Bitcoin deflated because of supply and demand. The same way gold does.
Ponzie doesn't necessarily imply borrowing. It's a dependence of downstream participation to carry on the scheme for the benefit of those who got in early. Those who get in first make the money, those who get in last, get left screwed. That's not how a currency is supposed to work.
You completely dodged the issue. Crypto is supposed to be a medium of exchange, a currency, not a way to make a whole bunch of money by being the first to buy in.
Gold is not simply supply and demand, nor is it like crypto. Gold price is based on the ability (costs) to extract a natural resource from the ground. And the price of gold is fixed. It takes a specfic amount of energy and effort to extract it from the ground and the price of gold is based almost solely on that. Innovation and technology can make it take marginally less effort to remove it from the ground and process it into something usable, but those small changes are reflected in the price of gold, also. The so called "rise" in the price of gold is nothing more than a sign of the loss in the value of the currency being used to buy the gold. It is not supply and demand. Not to mention, it's physical and has value as a material.
If the value of crypto fluctuates wildly, as it does, it becomes absurd to use it as a currency. Why would you spend 10,000 bitcoin to buy a pizza when that botcoin could be worth $65,000 each years later? Why would anyone, today, accept 5 bitcoin for their house if a few years from now it could be worthless? Why would a home buyer pay 5 bitcoin today if, in a few years, that bitcoin would be worth a million dollars each?
The fact that you have to consider the potential for rapid and vast changes in value before using it to buy or sell anything precludes it from being considered as a currency, which is why so very few people accept it.
It's a scam. You might be making good money on the scam, but it's still a scam and eventually the final purchasers will be screwed.
Bitcoin is not being used as a currency. It's being used as an investment and pushed as a way to make money. No one is buying USD's or Euro's to make a bunch of money over the short term. People are buying bitcoin hoping that the price will skyrocket. Not the same at all.
Who said anything about it being "controlled"? That's a strawman and I don't even see the point.
According to the US government,
Ponzie Scheme - A Ponzi scheme (/ˈpɒnzi/, Italian: [ˈpontsi]) is a form of fraud that lures investors and pays profits to earlier investors with funds from more recent investors.
There is nothing about borrowing implied. Borrowing is not a required element of a ponzie scheme. It's the simple funneling of money from new investors into the pockets of earlier investors to promote a scheme that will leave the last investors, fucked. The investment has no real value and is based on perceived potential of profits from nothing other than new investors wanting in.
No one is buying USD's or Euro's to make a bunch of money over the short term.
Yes they are, it's called Forex The difference is that fiat is inflationary, and bitcoin is deflationary. So, it makes more sense to hold on to bitcoin.
Regardless, that's still not a ponzi scheme. That's just saving money for later when the market values bitcoin more than it does now.
There is no "payout" mechanisim in the bitcoin protocol. Prove me wrong. It's open source. Show me the place in the code where you can exchange bitcoin for anything at all. Hint: It's not there.
People should not have to determine the potential value changes of their money when deciding whether to use it to buy a pizza, for example.
Also, you're on crack if you think people are using Forex to buy and sell USD or Euros to make short term gains. If you do think that, then you certainly don't know what you're talking about.
I'm sorry you did absolutely everything wrong and invested in the worst possible crypto that could be done but if you had put a portion of your assets in something like Bitcoin you would have some downside protection against a collapsing dollar and you don't need to hold it on coinbase or any of these other things you can hold it yourself.
I really want to be clear that I am only giving you the highlights here. Just do me a favor and if you ever meet someone who is a crypto developer please, without hesitation, punch them in their face immediately.
Or just don't buy the snake oil...
Your choice if you want to go to jail for assault though.
My .02 Back when the white paper came out in 09, I was all "meh. Nerd money." Knew the system was rigged, knew the fiat currency was doomed, knew the only real money was really historical monetary precious metals (Gold / Silver) and no one was going to convince me that BTC was a good alternative.
My opinion has gone 180 degrees from then, and started buying BTC during the run up of 2017. ave never put more than a couple hundred bucks at a time and ONLY self custody (currently using kraken because coinbase fees are outrageous and self custody in a couple of hardware wallets)
Now i'm a whole coiner +, BTC-maxi (don't have time to study shit coins for a quick gain and besides, i'm not a trader) and here is where the value is~
-It's a payment rail that is independent of 3rd party interference. There is no bank between you and whoever you are buying anything from with BTC; just your address and theirs. A big problem with the current monetary system is the long chain of 3rd party players that stake a claim on any transaction and if they are excluded, the transaction doesn't go through.
-BTC has gained wide spread adoption and it's growing globally. Consider it money, don't consider it money, it doesn't matter. If you have it, others will pay you for it and that includes the biggest banks on the planet at this point. In fact they cannot get enough of it.
-Like Gold, it's fungible, hard money. In fact, the hardest money. There is no counter party risk.
-unlike Gold, it's un-confiscatable and censorship resistant; the governments of the world have been unable to stop the freedom of individuals from transacting with BTC, with transaction immutability.
Like i've said on here many times, it took me years to come around, but there is no arguing with the longevity that crypto has demonstrated. Entire industries are being built around it, because it represents a demonstrated means of returning the power and freedom of money to people and away from corrupt governments.
OP does not know difference between crypto and tokens.
Keep most of your crypto (btc) offline, a little on your phone. If your trading it then yes you will most likely need to keep it on a exchange on their wallet. OP doesn't know shit.
Here is my take on e-sheckles. You can't hold them in your hands they do not exist.
Then to top it off is how no one has used it in their day to day, everyone says "investment" which is why it will never be a currency.
They only way it will is if the government adopts it, but you need two things to use it.
Electric for the hashing, and internet that you will never control, and for those that say radios can transmit, the can easily be jammed by region and then what?
No human being will hold faith in a currency like they do now unless they can hold it.
Firstly, just by your verbiage, its apparent you're a retard. You talk about "withdrawing" crypto. Its not a withdrawal, its a currency conversion.
Secondly, you keep relying on third parties to hold your money like they're banks giving you interest. If you want a bank, go to a bank. If you want an anonymous decentralized currency, don't deposit your money into a centralized account that's tied to your social securty, numbnuts.
I don't know shit about crypto but OP's story is suspect to me. I have a friend named Mike that tried showing me how he uses crypto on a daily basis for normal purchases. He never used a third party. He showed me how he set up his crypto "wallet" and then how he purchases gift cards to pay for the things he's trying to buy.
As a crappy example, we were at Hooter's and he paid for his meal with a gift card code that he paid for using crypto funds in his wallet. It was extra steps over just using cash, but he figured out how to use for normal everyday stuff.
He never said a word about any minimum withdrawal fees. He did acknowledge how volatile crypto was and also the downside of how easy it was for governments to shut down access to Russian crypto. He also never mentioned anything about third parties holding his crypto.
Just..... stop talking. How do you know s crypto bro is saying something retarded? Their lips are moving.
Do your thing but seriously you faggots talking the shit you talk is just advertising how much of a fucking scam it is and how little you learned about the world in grade 1
Not only is buying a gift card to specifically use to pay for something else the very definition of using a third party.... IT COMPLETELY DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF YOUR EXTRA LAYER OF FUNNY MONEY ITS REDUNDANT AND VALUELESS. isn't worth shit isn't private isn't secure isn't simpler.
Warren Buffett is not a fan of crypto. In so many words, he has called it a Ponzi scheme and a Jew scam without saying it directly. I am of the same opinion.
What I struggle with is understanding any dimension in which it is a ponzi scheme under which the US dollar does not meet the same criteria or worse.
The difference is USD gives an unlimited money faucet to people who want you dead and extinct. So if we all make the mistake of valuing it we are signing away our existence because realistically there is no way we can compete against people who can print money, while we spend the majority of our awake time chasing said money, and producing value indirectly for people who print that money.
How can you defeat an enemy that doesn't work and is able to direct over half of your time?
So crypto is just a subjective token of value. How is that any different than USD. The difference is that crypto isn't fauceted by people who want you dead. The only way people calculate that crypto is a ponzi scheme and dollars aren't is if their monkey brain has been so warped by dollar = value that they actually believe there is no difference between them at all. They've conditioned your mind to not see it as a token but instead as value itself. How much worse then is it that we've let them faucet "value itself." If peoples minds are this warped then we are even more fucked using that option.
In chess we sometimes prefer bad moves over moves that are an already calculated loss. If a path is a certain loss you don't do it. Letting our lives be ruled by USD is a calculated guaranteed loss by people able to think some 2 moves ahead. USD use is mate in 2. So who cares if at first you don't know how to avoid fees and lose 20 bucks. Who fucking cares?
I also don't care what Warren Buffett thinks. Again there is no way crypto can be described as a ponzi scheme in which the US dollar can't also. It technically doesn't meet the definition and the US dollar does. The looser but incomplete definition under which crypto is being described as a ponzi scheme also applies to stocks. And Warrent Buffet buys those. Your stock has no value unless someone is willing to buy it from you later. If you put your time into getting USD that's not going to do anything for you unless someone is willing to give your real goods or services for it later. That's what people describing crypto as a ponzi scheme are using as their standard, but the same standard doesn't get applied to what they are familiar with for some reason.
What makes a ponzi scheme a ponzi scheme completely is not that someone needs to buy in after you, but that someone is managing the money and able to skim value off of it so on net all the people who buy in are at a cumulative loss.
This is actually what USD is. Let's say you produce the equivalent goods of 4 grocery store shelves worth of goods in a day. In theory you should be able to go to the grocery store and buy all of those good. And you should be able to do that even if you hold onto the tokens you were given for a while. Well first off you are paying taxes as a result of making money within their system. But also all the people who didn't work and didn't produce anything are also buying off of that shelf before you can even get off work to buy yours. And then you and everyone else who worked need to compete, via prices, for the remaining goods. There is no way each of you will walk home with all your goods now. This is what inflation actually is. Non-producers consuming in the market. But the welfare rats are the least of your problems. You also have money being printed and being given to the defense industry the produce no goods of real value besides more ways to kill and control people, and more ways to enforce this broken monetary system as a model. You also have banks receving printed money at negative real interest rate (a gift) and using it to buy up all the capital in the market and charging rents for it back.
All of this is made possible by printing the token in a way that can benefit specific people that produce no value, unlike crypto. In other words USD is an actual ponzi scheme. Not feels like a ponzi scheme. Not that is my opinion also a ponzi scheme. But the actual technical definition of a ponzi scheme while crypto is absolutely not the technical definition. Fuck your opinions. USD is a ponzi scheme, objectively a ponzi scheme you retarded fuck.
I do not consider the U.S. dollar as an investment; Crypto is touted as an INVESTMENT. It is backed by nothing, produces nothing, has no tangible assets and has manipulated, unreasonably high service fees that gouge the person gambling on it.
Crypto is basically a casino. Gamble a little if you have some to throw away. Sheer it if it gains a lot (I recommend just buying some gold/silver with the winnings, which you can pay for directly with crypto).
Your lack of understanding but full faith in your own mind is what keeps you poor. Sorry to say here but you're simply wrong.
EVERYTHING EVER SOLD OR TRADED can be considered a ponzi scheme if you're willing to think like that. If you own stock (unless it pays a dividend) the only value you'll ever get out of it is if someone is willing to buy it for more. It's the same with gold, your house, or anything.
All bitcoin is, is a pure ledger that can't be manipulated (meaning the unit supply will always be released in a known, mathematical way). ALL other ledgers including the dollar OR EVEN GOLD can't do that. It keeps going up in value because society says that is very important. They are right.
Think what you like but it will keep going up in value as you think that.
[ - ] Love240 1 point 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 15:52:40 ago (+1/-0)
The difference is USD gives an unlimited money faucet to people who want you dead and extinct. So if we all make the mistake of valuing it we are signing away our existence because realistically there is no way we can compete against people who can print money, while we spend the majority of our awake time chasing said money, and producing value indirectly for people who print that money.
This stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of how our monetary system functions.
The dollar's purchasing power is predicated on the 'full faith and credit of the American people'.
This means that it's purely based on your word to repay, on credit.
When you realize this, the rabbit hole becomes much more understandable.
When you sign something, you are performing on the contract to 'promise repayment'.
What you don't realize is that this is a commercial contract and you have the ability to retain your rights under UCC § 1-308, such that you do not necessarily agree to pay anything back personally. (This is actually what the banks do, look it up)
Your signature on the contract is what authorizes the creation of the fiat to fulfill the contract. This is done at the Federal Reserve Discount Window.
Around anything new there is bound to be innumerable scams, especially in tech and in ZOGs. Of course it's a ponzi scheme, until everyone starts using them, then they'll become regulated and policed. Which means they'll come under ZOG control. Just like paper money.
Combine that with the phrase: Everyone looks like a genius in a bull market, and you have crypto.
The biggest hurdle to adoption and actual use has always been the fees. When the transaction fee is $20 for a $5 purchase, not a single person (sane anyway) will buy anything with bitcoin and this will stop mainstream adoption.
The hype was always to use bitcoin/crypto as an alternative to banks, but the crypto miners have become the banks and are just as bad as the filthy kikes.
You aren't supposed to use crypto for small tranactions. Even without a transaction fee, you still have a period of time, up to 24 hours, in which you need to wait for the transaction to be verifid. This is baked into the protocol. It's not a flaw, it's what it takes to verify a transaction.
So, imagine waiting in line for 24 hours to buy a sandwich for lunch and paying a $20 fee as well.
You can be retarded, and complain about it not working how you think it's supposed to work. Or, you can understand how it's supposed to work.
Crypto is a store of value. You wouldn't use crypto to buy a sandwich any more than you would use gold to buy a sandwich.
You buy crypto and gold to deflate and store value. Then, when you want to buy a sandwich, you convert your crypto into a couple weeks worth of fiat. That way the fiat doesn't have enough time to inflate. So, say $1,000 - $2,000 at a time. If you do that, then the fees and delay really mean nothing.
TL;DR Gold, silver, crypto is for storing/deflating value. Fiat is for walking around money. Never store/inflate fiat.
That may be how it works now, but the promise of crypto was to replace both fiat currency and banks. And I never heard about a minimum purchase.
If the price of a pizza was 100 bitcoin, and the fee was 2 bitcoin, people would definitely be willing to buy a pizza using bitcoin.
Crypto replaces the banks. How long does it take for a merchant to get the deposit from a credit card transaction? I would guess 24 to 48 hours too, yet people walk out the door with purchases immediately following a credit card transaction.
The difference here is the two parties to the transaction rely on the blockchain to complete the transactions and still need to have that trust in something outside themselves.
Anyone who ever thought crypto was going to replace fiat is a fool. 1. It CAN replace fiat if you want to accept it's natural limitations, ie wait times and fees. 2. otherwise, you can just use it as it is actually intended to be used, which is as a long period store of value.
If the price of a pizza was 100 bitcoin, and the fee was 2 bitcoin, people would definitely be willing to buy a pizza using bitcoin.
Except, there is no way to regulate that. So, wipe that retarded idea from your mind. You are ruining your own experience by expecting something that was never promised. Use bitcoin as a long term store of value. Convert to fiat for quick transactions. That's what fiat is good for.
Crypto replaces the banks.
Yes, if you want to store value long term.
How long does it take for a merchant to get the deposit from a credit card transaction? I would guess 24 to 48 hours too, yet people walk out the door with purchases immediately following a credit card transaction.
Credit is also highly insecure. You have to choose one, but not both. High security, requires no trust, takes long to verify. Low security, the bank "trusts" that you will pay them back in a month, almost no verification. just enter a 4 digit pin "trust me bro"
Crypto goes the "0 trust" route. And therefore, it is expensive, because you must pay miners to incintivize them to verify every transaction on the network, and that takes time.
Yeah, there are services that can speed up the process by giving them control of your crypto. But, at that point, it's not really crypto, it's just an insecure security held by a bank.
Yeah. Lightning is secure. The issue is that it is more complicated to set up. You basically have to set up your own full node to use it. Most people do end up using a custodial wallet to use lightning.
I think lightning is cool from a geek standpoint, but it's over kill for lowering fees. You can spend $5.00 on a bitcoin transaction, or you can spend $0.02 on a litecoin transaction, or you can spend $0.000000001 on a lightning transaction. But you have to spend quite a bit on a dedicated node that can never have down time. And also spend a bit of time seeking out what are basically bi-directional escrows that will tie up some money almost indefinitely. I'll pay the 2 cents for a litecoin transaction.
You don't even own that with USD!!!! Any money you hold in the bank is NOT your money and they have the serial numbers of all the bills with fewer and fewer places taking those.
Also, with bitcoin, you don't own numbers on a computer. You own numbers on many, many computers. You own a portion of a pure ledger. You're right though. You OWN it.
Also, if you'd like to engage in name calling, I say we meet, film it and post it here.
That's only true of bitcoin. I'm not for people touching bitcoin because I am pro-crypto and I want people to have good first time experiences. Bitcoin won't give that because of the high fees, wait times, and complexity to set up lightning if you want to avoid that.
But almost all the other crypto currencies run better than that. Except ethereum. So I encourage people to try any of bitcoin-cash, litecoin, dogecoin, shiba-inu first. Any of those will give you pretty much an identical experience. Basically zero fees and relatively instant. And then optionally try monero second if they want more anonymity and don't mind using up a lot of hard drive.
It sucks that bitcoin is the face of crypto. As soon as there is what they call a market cap inversion, which bitcoin finally takes a number 2 place, crypto is going to take off. Because something else will now be the face of crypto more broadly and it won't suck.
Basically never use bitcoin. Use something else. BCH, Litecoin, Doge, Shiba. There are a million options that will not give you that problem that have just as much acceptance as bitcoin.
Complains about crypto, Doesn't use self custody and complains about paying fees into the dirt.
Talks about Sam Altman, the absolute chode that took OpenAI as something that was supposed to be for everyone and privatized it when he got a smell of money.
I think you got duped by a bunch of Jews the same way they get you leaving Fiat with a bank.
That's quite literally the us dollar. It is owned and created by literal jews and over 95% is digital AND you can't ever own their digital dollars. At least with bitcoin, you OWN it if you are the only one that has the private key. They can't hold it from you.
The majority of all cryptos are owned by kikes. Giving them ultimate power to crush your "investment" on a whim. Congratulations you went from one kike scheme to another and gained the special trait, "Blind Ignorance" along the way.
Yeah! And a rich one! Good luck with your jew dollars created by literal jews with jews being able to stop you from using their jew money they own. Jew cuck boy!
[ + ] FreeinTX
[ - ] FreeinTX 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 13:52:58 ago (+0/-0)
Til Crypto was at $1000.
Lol.
But you're right. It's a scam.
[ + ] Master_Foo
[ - ] Master_Foo 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 13:59:02 ago (+1/-1)
It's not a scam, you just don't understand how it is supposed to be used.
Hint: Somebody else holding your crypto for you isn't crypto.
[ + ] rzr97
[ - ] rzr97 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 15:08:42 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] FreeinTX
[ - ] FreeinTX 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 15:14:23 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Master_Foo
[ - ] Master_Foo 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 15:46:50 ago (+0/-0)*
Kind of like how retarded Progressives think everything they don't understand is a far-right nazi fascist.
Here, let me help you out.
A ponzi scheme is when person A borrows money from person B, then Person A borrows form person C to pay back person B.
So... Where in crypto is anyone borrowing anything?
You can't answer the question because you don't understand the problem.
There is no credit in crypto.
Every transaction is final.
All you are doing here is misunderstanding the nature of transactions when resources are limited.
Bitcoin deflated because of supply and demand.
The same way gold does.
[ + ] FreeinTX
[ - ] FreeinTX 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 19:41:33 ago (+0/-0)
You completely dodged the issue. Crypto is supposed to be a medium of exchange, a currency, not a way to make a whole bunch of money by being the first to buy in.
Gold is not simply supply and demand, nor is it like crypto. Gold price is based on the ability (costs) to extract a natural resource from the ground. And the price of gold is fixed. It takes a specfic amount of energy and effort to extract it from the ground and the price of gold is based almost solely on that. Innovation and technology can make it take marginally less effort to remove it from the ground and process it into something usable, but those small changes are reflected in the price of gold, also. The so called "rise" in the price of gold is nothing more than a sign of the loss in the value of the currency being used to buy the gold. It is not supply and demand. Not to mention, it's physical and has value as a material.
If the value of crypto fluctuates wildly, as it does, it becomes absurd to use it as a currency. Why would you spend 10,000 bitcoin to buy a pizza when that botcoin could be worth $65,000 each years later? Why would anyone, today, accept 5 bitcoin for their house if a few years from now it could be worthless? Why would a home buyer pay 5 bitcoin today if, in a few years, that bitcoin would be worth a million dollars each?
The fact that you have to consider the potential for rapid and vast changes in value before using it to buy or sell anything precludes it from being considered as a currency, which is why so very few people accept it.
It's a scam. You might be making good money on the scam, but it's still a scam and eventually the final purchasers will be screwed.
[ + ] Master_Foo
[ - ] Master_Foo 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 19:52:22 ago (+0/-0)
You do think "Everything you don't understand is a ponzi scheme".
Hint: it isn't.
You are a retard. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
[ + ] FreeinTX
[ - ] FreeinTX 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 20:02:49 ago (+0/-0)
Who said anything about it being "controlled"? That's a strawman and I don't even see the point.
According to the US government,
Ponzie Scheme - A Ponzi scheme (/ˈpɒnzi/, Italian: [ˈpontsi]) is a form of fraud that lures investors and pays profits to earlier investors with funds from more recent investors.
https://www.investor.gov/protect-your-investments/fraud/types-fraud/ponzi-scheme
There is nothing about borrowing implied. Borrowing is not a required element of a ponzie scheme. It's the simple funneling of money from new investors into the pockets of earlier investors to promote a scheme that will leave the last investors, fucked. The investment has no real value and is based on perceived potential of profits from nothing other than new investors wanting in.
I do know what I'm taking about.
[ + ] Master_Foo
[ - ] Master_Foo 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 20:16:18 ago (+0/-0)
The difference is that fiat is inflationary, and bitcoin is deflationary. So, it makes more sense to hold on to bitcoin.
Regardless, that's still not a ponzi scheme.
That's just saving money for later when the market values bitcoin more than it does now.
[ + ] i_scream_trucks
[ - ] i_scream_trucks 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 20:30:01 ago (+0/-0)
I like how you keep on attempting to redefine pomzo so crypto isn't so blatant a scam.
If you can pay out one customer until you suck a new one in, it's a ponzi.
[ + ] Master_Foo
[ - ] Master_Foo 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 20:37:51 ago (+0/-0)
Prove me wrong.
It's open source.
Show me the place in the code where you can exchange bitcoin for anything at all.
Hint: It's not there.
[ + ] FreeinTX
[ - ] FreeinTX 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 20:41:26 ago (+0/-0)*
And, what is not, is a currency, which requires stability as a fundamental key feature.
https://corporatefinanceinstitute.com/resources/economics/money/
People should not have to determine the potential value changes of their money when deciding whether to use it to buy a pizza, for example.
Also, you're on crack if you think people are using Forex to buy and sell USD or Euros to make short term gains. If you do think that, then you certainly don't know what you're talking about.
[ + ] Master_Foo
[ - ] Master_Foo 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 21:05:47 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Crackinjokes
[ - ] Crackinjokes 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 14:29:57 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] 4thTurning
[ - ] 4thTurning 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 14:38:24 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Love240
[ - ] Love240 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 14:44:34 ago (+0/-0)
Or just don't buy the snake oil...
Your choice if you want to go to jail for assault though.
[ + ] registereduser
[ - ] registereduser 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 14:59:28 ago (+0/-0)
No, I will not punch them, I will pat them on the back for fucking your dumb ass over.
People this dumb should be banned from air.
[ + ] Drstrangestgov
[ - ] Drstrangestgov 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 16:02:27 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] RobertJHarsh
[ - ] RobertJHarsh 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 17:42:11 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] PORTforceOne
[ - ] PORTforceOne 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 18:11:07 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] clymer
[ - ] clymer 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 19:37:43 ago (+0/-0)
Back when the white paper came out in 09, I was all "meh. Nerd money." Knew the system was rigged, knew the fiat currency was doomed, knew the only real money was really historical monetary precious metals (Gold / Silver) and no one was going to convince me that BTC was a good alternative.
My opinion has gone 180 degrees from then, and started buying BTC during the run up of 2017. ave never put more than a couple hundred bucks at a time and ONLY self custody (currently using kraken because coinbase fees are outrageous and self custody in a couple of hardware wallets)
Now i'm a whole coiner +, BTC-maxi (don't have time to study shit coins for a quick gain and besides, i'm not a trader) and here is where the value is~
-It's a payment rail that is independent of 3rd party interference. There is no bank between you and whoever you are buying anything from with BTC; just your address and theirs. A big problem with the current monetary system is the long chain of 3rd party players that stake a claim on any transaction and if they are excluded, the transaction doesn't go through.
-BTC has gained wide spread adoption and it's growing globally. Consider it money, don't consider it money, it doesn't matter. If you have it, others will pay you for it and that includes the biggest banks on the planet at this point. In fact they cannot get enough of it.
-Like Gold, it's fungible, hard money. In fact, the hardest money. There is no counter party risk.
-unlike Gold, it's un-confiscatable and censorship resistant; the governments of the world have been unable to stop the freedom of individuals from transacting with BTC, with transaction immutability.
Like i've said on here many times, it took me years to come around, but there is no arguing with the longevity that crypto has demonstrated. Entire industries are being built around it, because it represents a demonstrated means of returning the power and freedom of money to people and away from corrupt governments.
[ + ] i_scream_trucks
[ - ] i_scream_trucks 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 20:30:51 ago (+0/-0)
Boy was i right.
[ + ] foxtrot45
[ - ] foxtrot45 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 20:02:05 ago (+0/-0)
Keep most of your crypto (btc) offline, a little on your phone. If your trading it then yes you will most likely need to keep it on a exchange on their wallet. OP doesn't know shit.
[ + ] i_scream_trucks
[ - ] i_scream_trucks 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 20:32:01 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] i_scream_trucks
[ - ] i_scream_trucks 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 20:09:53 ago (+0/-0)
You send money to someone and they say 'well done, you're rich'
Monopoly money not worth shit.
[ + ] Anotherone
[ - ] Anotherone 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 20:25:15 ago (+0/-0)
Then to top it off is how no one has used it in their day to day, everyone says "investment" which is why it will never be a currency.
They only way it will is if the government adopts it, but you need two things to use it.
Electric for the hashing, and internet that you will never control, and for those that say radios can transmit, the can easily be jammed by region and then what?
No human being will hold faith in a currency like they do now unless they can hold it.
[ + ] BlueEyedAngloMasterRaceGod
[ - ] BlueEyedAngloMasterRaceGod 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 21:30:14 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Prairie
[ - ] Prairie 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 21:40:40 ago (+0/-0)
Buy from a crypto ATM, if those still exist. Then transfer into your own address, not an exchange.
[ + ] carnold03
[ - ] carnold03 0 points 7 monthsOct 28, 2024 06:45:29 ago (+0/-0)
— Thomas Tusser, "A Hundreth Good Pointes of Husbandrie"
[ + ] rzr97
[ - ] rzr97 1 point 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 15:06:31 ago (+1/-0)
Also, don't drink water because someone could drown you with it.
[ + ] Version6
[ - ] Version6 1 point 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 16:18:49 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] oyveyo
[ - ] oyveyo 1 point 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 17:27:36 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] TheOriginal1Icemonkey
[ - ] TheOriginal1Icemonkey 2 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 13:46:35 ago (+3/-1)
[ + ] albatrosv15
[ - ] albatrosv15 2 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 13:53:48 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] MaryXmas
[ - ] MaryXmas 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 17:56:05 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] i_scream_trucks
[ - ] i_scream_trucks 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 20:26:52 ago (+0/-0)
I don't think monopoly money is worth anything outside of a monopoly game tho.
[ + ] MaryXmas
[ - ] MaryXmas 0 points 7 monthsOct 28, 2024 07:13:08 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Kozel
[ - ] Kozel 3 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 17:27:48 ago (+3/-0)
Secondly, you keep relying on third parties to hold your money like they're banks giving you interest. If you want a bank, go to a bank. If you want an anonymous decentralized currency, don't deposit your money into a centralized account that's tied to your social securty, numbnuts.
[ + ] CRKT_M16Z
[ - ] CRKT_M16Z 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 17:41:56 ago (+0/-0)
As a crappy example, we were at Hooter's and he paid for his meal with a gift card code that he paid for using crypto funds in his wallet. It was extra steps over just using cash, but he figured out how to use for normal everyday stuff.
He never said a word about any minimum withdrawal fees. He did acknowledge how volatile crypto was and also the downside of how easy it was for governments to shut down access to Russian crypto. He also never mentioned anything about third parties holding his crypto.
[ + ] Kozel
[ - ] Kozel 1 point 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 20:48:34 ago (+1/-0)
he went to a website and signed up for an account and agreed to a terms of service and then gave them his crypto
he should have made a local wallet and kept it in there
but he might not have the wherewithal to keep a local wallet and deal with things like backups and opsec so he gave his crypto to someone else instead
if it was me, I'd use a local open source wallet. like unstoppable wallet or something like that.
[ + ] CRKT_M16Z
[ - ] CRKT_M16Z 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 23:45:43 ago (+0/-0)
https://www.upgoat.net/viewpost?postid=671e77d2d1712&commentid=671ed908ee2e4
[ + ] Kozel
[ - ] Kozel 0 points 7 monthsOct 28, 2024 03:59:20 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] MaryXmas
[ - ] MaryXmas 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 17:59:35 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] i_scream_trucks
[ - ] i_scream_trucks 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 20:21:28 ago (+0/-0)*
"Bought gift cards"
Just..... stop talking. How do you know s crypto bro is saying something retarded? Their lips are moving.
Do your thing but seriously you faggots talking the shit you talk is just advertising how much of a fucking scam it is and how little you learned about the world in grade 1
Not only is buying a gift card to specifically use to pay for something else the very definition of using a third party.... IT COMPLETELY DEFEATS THE PURPOSE OF YOUR EXTRA LAYER OF FUNNY MONEY ITS REDUNDANT AND VALUELESS. isn't worth shit isn't private isn't secure isn't simpler.
[ + ] TheBigGuyFromQueens
[ - ] TheBigGuyFromQueens 6 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 14:39:35 ago (+6/-0)
[ + ] x0x7
[ - ] x0x7 2 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 15:43:05 ago (+2/-0)*
The difference is USD gives an unlimited money faucet to people who want you dead and extinct. So if we all make the mistake of valuing it we are signing away our existence because realistically there is no way we can compete against people who can print money, while we spend the majority of our awake time chasing said money, and producing value indirectly for people who print that money.
How can you defeat an enemy that doesn't work and is able to direct over half of your time?
So crypto is just a subjective token of value. How is that any different than USD. The difference is that crypto isn't fauceted by people who want you dead. The only way people calculate that crypto is a ponzi scheme and dollars aren't is if their monkey brain has been so warped by dollar = value that they actually believe there is no difference between them at all. They've conditioned your mind to not see it as a token but instead as value itself. How much worse then is it that we've let them faucet "value itself." If peoples minds are this warped then we are even more fucked using that option.
In chess we sometimes prefer bad moves over moves that are an already calculated loss. If a path is a certain loss you don't do it. Letting our lives be ruled by USD is a calculated guaranteed loss by people able to think some 2 moves ahead. USD use is mate in 2. So who cares if at first you don't know how to avoid fees and lose 20 bucks. Who fucking cares?
I also don't care what Warren Buffett thinks. Again there is no way crypto can be described as a ponzi scheme in which the US dollar can't also. It technically doesn't meet the definition and the US dollar does. The looser but incomplete definition under which crypto is being described as a ponzi scheme also applies to stocks. And Warrent Buffet buys those. Your stock has no value unless someone is willing to buy it from you later. If you put your time into getting USD that's not going to do anything for you unless someone is willing to give your real goods or services for it later. That's what people describing crypto as a ponzi scheme are using as their standard, but the same standard doesn't get applied to what they are familiar with for some reason.
What makes a ponzi scheme a ponzi scheme completely is not that someone needs to buy in after you, but that someone is managing the money and able to skim value off of it so on net all the people who buy in are at a cumulative loss.
This is actually what USD is. Let's say you produce the equivalent goods of 4 grocery store shelves worth of goods in a day. In theory you should be able to go to the grocery store and buy all of those good. And you should be able to do that even if you hold onto the tokens you were given for a while. Well first off you are paying taxes as a result of making money within their system. But also all the people who didn't work and didn't produce anything are also buying off of that shelf before you can even get off work to buy yours. And then you and everyone else who worked need to compete, via prices, for the remaining goods. There is no way each of you will walk home with all your goods now. This is what inflation actually is. Non-producers consuming in the market. But the welfare rats are the least of your problems. You also have money being printed and being given to the defense industry the produce no goods of real value besides more ways to kill and control people, and more ways to enforce this broken monetary system as a model. You also have banks receving printed money at negative real interest rate (a gift) and using it to buy up all the capital in the market and charging rents for it back.
All of this is made possible by printing the token in a way that can benefit specific people that produce no value, unlike crypto. In other words USD is an actual ponzi scheme. Not feels like a ponzi scheme. Not that is my opinion also a ponzi scheme. But the actual technical definition of a ponzi scheme while crypto is absolutely not the technical definition. Fuck your opinions. USD is a ponzi scheme, objectively a ponzi scheme you retarded fuck.
[ + ] TheBigGuyFromQueens
[ - ] TheBigGuyFromQueens 4 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 16:40:46 ago (+4/-0)
[ + ] i_scream_trucks
[ - ] i_scream_trucks 3 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 20:17:15 ago (+3/-0)
And it's private! Until the 'private' transaction is made and it appears on a public ledger...
Literally nothing crypto bros say is in any way a reflection of reality
[ + ] Prairie
[ - ] Prairie 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 21:41:47 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] rzr97
[ - ] rzr97 0 points 7 monthsOct 28, 2024 09:05:35 ago (+0/-0)
EVERYTHING EVER SOLD OR TRADED can be considered a ponzi scheme if you're willing to think like that. If you own stock (unless it pays a dividend) the only value you'll ever get out of it is if someone is willing to buy it for more. It's the same with gold, your house, or anything.
All bitcoin is, is a pure ledger that can't be manipulated (meaning the unit supply will always be released in a known, mathematical way). ALL other ledgers including the dollar OR EVEN GOLD can't do that. It keeps going up in value because society says that is very important. They are right.
Think what you like but it will keep going up in value as you think that.
[ + ] TheBigGuyFromQueens
[ - ] TheBigGuyFromQueens 0 points 7 monthsOct 28, 2024 09:35:34 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Love240
[ - ] Love240 1 point 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 15:52:40 ago (+1/-0)
This stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of how our monetary system functions.
The dollar's purchasing power is predicated on the 'full faith and credit of the American people'.
This means that it's purely based on your word to repay, on credit.
When you realize this, the rabbit hole becomes much more understandable.
When you sign something, you are performing on the contract to 'promise repayment'.
What you don't realize is that this is a commercial contract and you have the ability to retain your rights under UCC § 1-308, such that you do not necessarily agree to pay anything back personally.
(This is actually what the banks do, look it up)
Your signature on the contract is what authorizes the creation of the fiat to fulfill the contract. This is done at the Federal Reserve Discount Window.
[ + ] i_scream_trucks
[ - ] i_scream_trucks 1 point 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 20:19:40 ago (+1/-0)
Yes it is. That's exactly what a ponzi scheme is. It's why crypto is a ponzi.
Stop. Fucking. Lying.
[ + ] CasualObserver
[ - ] CasualObserver 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 16:16:26 ago (+0/-0)
What's your promo code?
[ + ] clymer
[ - ] clymer 0 points 7 monthsOct 28, 2024 06:10:30 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] PotatoWhisperer2
[ - ] PotatoWhisperer2 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 15:16:13 ago (+0/-0)
Combine that with the phrase: Everyone looks like a genius in a bull market, and you have crypto.
[ + ] i_scream_trucks
[ - ] i_scream_trucks 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 20:18:11 ago (+0/-0)
Being a jew doesn't automatically make someone wrong.
[ + ] localsal
[ - ] localsal 7 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 13:39:05 ago (+7/-0)
When the transaction fee is $20 for a $5 purchase, not a single person (sane anyway) will buy anything with bitcoin and this will stop mainstream adoption.
The hype was always to use bitcoin/crypto as an alternative to banks, but the crypto miners have become the banks and are just as bad as the filthy kikes.
[ + ] Master_Foo
[ - ] Master_Foo 2 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 13:55:23 ago (+3/-1)
Even without a transaction fee, you still have a period of time, up to 24 hours, in which you need to wait for the transaction to be verifid.
This is baked into the protocol.
It's not a flaw, it's what it takes to verify a transaction.
So, imagine waiting in line for 24 hours to buy a sandwich for lunch and paying a $20 fee as well.
You can be retarded, and complain about it not working how you think it's supposed to work.
Or, you can understand how it's supposed to work.
Crypto is a store of value.
You wouldn't use crypto to buy a sandwich any more than you would use gold to buy a sandwich.
You buy crypto and gold to deflate and store value.
Then, when you want to buy a sandwich, you convert your crypto into a couple weeks worth of fiat. That way the fiat doesn't have enough time to inflate.
So, say $1,000 - $2,000 at a time.
If you do that, then the fees and delay really mean nothing.
TL;DR
Gold, silver, crypto is for storing/deflating value.
Fiat is for walking around money. Never store/inflate fiat.
[ + ] localsal
[ - ] localsal 5 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 14:06:25 ago (+5/-0)
If the price of a pizza was 100 bitcoin, and the fee was 2 bitcoin, people would definitely be willing to buy a pizza using bitcoin.
Crypto replaces the banks. How long does it take for a merchant to get the deposit from a credit card transaction? I would guess 24 to 48 hours too, yet people walk out the door with purchases immediately following a credit card transaction.
The difference here is the two parties to the transaction rely on the blockchain to complete the transactions and still need to have that trust in something outside themselves.
[ + ] Master_Foo
[ - ] Master_Foo 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 15:28:35 ago (+1/-1)
1. It CAN replace fiat if you want to accept it's natural limitations, ie wait times and fees.
2. otherwise, you can just use it as it is actually intended to be used, which is as a long period store of value.
Use bitcoin as a long term store of value.
Convert to fiat for quick transactions. That's what fiat is good for.
You have to choose one, but not both.
High security, requires no trust, takes long to verify.
Low security, the bank "trusts" that you will pay them back in a month, almost no verification. just enter a 4 digit pin "trust me bro"
Crypto goes the "0 trust" route. And therefore, it is expensive, because you must pay miners to incintivize them to verify every transaction on the network, and that takes time.
[ + ] rzr97
[ - ] rzr97 1 point 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 15:07:35 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Master_Foo
[ - ] Master_Foo 1 point 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 15:14:07 ago (+1/-0)
But, at that point, it's not really crypto, it's just an insecure security held by a bank.
[ + ] rzr97
[ - ] rzr97 2 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 15:17:09 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] Master_Foo
[ - ] Master_Foo 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 15:52:09 ago (+0/-0)
That's a cool new feature.
I've been getting the crypto bug lately. Time to start buying again.
[ + ] titstitstits
[ - ] titstitstits [op] 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 18:08:04 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] x0x7
[ - ] x0x7 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 18:20:26 ago (+0/-0)
I think lightning is cool from a geek standpoint, but it's over kill for lowering fees. You can spend $5.00 on a bitcoin transaction, or you can spend $0.02 on a litecoin transaction, or you can spend $0.000000001 on a lightning transaction. But you have to spend quite a bit on a dedicated node that can never have down time. And also spend a bit of time seeking out what are basically bi-directional escrows that will tie up some money almost indefinitely. I'll pay the 2 cents for a litecoin transaction.
[ + ] i_scream_trucks
[ - ] i_scream_trucks 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 20:12:28 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] rzr97
[ - ] rzr97 0 points 7 monthsOct 28, 2024 02:23:43 ago (+0/-0)
Also, with bitcoin, you don't own numbers on a computer. You own numbers on many, many computers. You own a portion of a pure ledger. You're right though. You OWN it.
Also, if you'd like to engage in name calling, I say we meet, film it and post it here.
[ + ] x0x7
[ - ] x0x7 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 18:15:02 ago (+0/-0)
But almost all the other crypto currencies run better than that. Except ethereum. So I encourage people to try any of bitcoin-cash, litecoin, dogecoin, shiba-inu first. Any of those will give you pretty much an identical experience. Basically zero fees and relatively instant. And then optionally try monero second if they want more anonymity and don't mind using up a lot of hard drive.
It sucks that bitcoin is the face of crypto. As soon as there is what they call a market cap inversion, which bitcoin finally takes a number 2 place, crypto is going to take off. Because something else will now be the face of crypto more broadly and it won't suck.
[ + ] x0x7
[ - ] x0x7 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 18:16:57 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] i_scream_trucks
[ - ] i_scream_trucks 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 20:11:18 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] lolxd
[ - ] lolxd 9 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 15:11:46 ago (+9/-0)
Talks about Sam Altman, the absolute chode that took OpenAI as something that was supposed to be for everyone and privatized it when he got a smell of money.
I think you got duped by a bunch of Jews the same way they get you leaving Fiat with a bank.
[ + ] i_scream_trucks
[ - ] i_scream_trucks 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 20:14:56 ago (+0/-0)
To an outsider you all look that fucking retarded
Do you all have greasy ass 'women' as well?
[ + ] lolxd
[ - ] lolxd 0 points 7 monthsOct 28, 2024 12:20:50 ago (+0/-0)
Welcome to the internet, everyones a liar and a crook.
[ + ] FacelessOne
[ - ] FacelessOne 17 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 14:05:35 ago (+18/-1)
[ + ] rzr97
[ - ] rzr97 3 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 15:10:01 ago (+3/-0)
[ + ] FacelessOne
[ - ] FacelessOne 1 point 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 16:33:29 ago (+2/-1)*
You own it. Like you own real estate.
The majority of all cryptos are owned by kikes. Giving them ultimate power to crush your "investment" on a whim. Congratulations you went from one kike scheme to another and gained the special trait, "Blind Ignorance" along the way.
Stop playing kike games.
[ + ] MichaelStewart
[ - ] MichaelStewart 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 17:38:55 ago (+1/-1)
[ + ] x0x7
[ - ] x0x7 0 points 7 monthsOct 27, 2024 18:15:43 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] FacelessOne
[ - ] FacelessOne 0 points 7 monthsOct 28, 2024 08:03:52 ago (+0/-0)
Ready to Race War? Or to busy investing more into their systems?
[ + ] rzr97
[ - ] rzr97 0 points 7 monthsOct 28, 2024 02:25:00 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] FacelessOne
[ - ] FacelessOne 0 points 7 monthsOct 28, 2024 08:06:14 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] rzr97
[ - ] rzr97 0 points 7 monthsOct 28, 2024 08:59:26 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] FacelessOne
[ - ] FacelessOne 0 points 7 monthsOct 28, 2024 12:26:57 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] rzr97
[ - ] rzr97 0 points 7 monthsOct 28, 2024 13:22:19 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] FacelessOne
[ - ] FacelessOne 0 points 7 monthsOct 28, 2024 15:19:37 ago (+0/-0)
GOOD GOY!
[ + ] rzr97
[ - ] rzr97 0 points 7 monthsOct 28, 2024 16:04:39 ago (+0/-0)