i came across a sermon yesterday night on sermon audio and the topic of said sermon was about making heaven and christ our focus which i fully agree with. the pastor then started talk about "those people that are grumpy all day because of their suffering" and honestly i didnt like his tone. he was kind of mocking them because he says that true christians are joyful even in the most distressful of situations.
making it sound like suffering was a sin or something and them i was reminded of job, jeremiah, asaf and others that went through much suffering and the bible didnt said that they were happy all the time. specially job and jeremiah which were prophets (job talked and heard and even saw God so that qualified him as such)
the bible doesnt tell us HOW long the suffering of job lasted and ditto for jeremiah.
so can a christian be sad and suffer??
i was really surprised to hear this from a baptist pastor. usually charismatics and pentecostals holds similar views.
needless to say that as soon as i heard this i closed the sermon right away. because i dont believe this pastor is even biblical or sane for saying this
Psalms Chapter 77 To the chief Musician, to Jeduthun, A Psalm of Asaph.
1 I cried unto God with my voice, even unto God with my voice; and he gave ear unto me. 2 In the day of my trouble I sought the Lord: my sore ran in the night, and ceased not: my soul refused to be comforted. 3 I remembered God, and was troubled: I complained, and my spirit was overwhelmed. Selah. 4 Thou holdest mine eyes waking: I am so troubled that I cannot speak. 5 I have considered the days of old, the years of ancient times. 6 I call to remembrance my song in the night: I commune with mine own heart: and my spirit made diligent search. 7 Will the Lord cast off for ever? and will he be favourable no more? 8 Is his mercy clean gone for ever? doth his promise fail for evermore? 9 Hath God forgotten to be gracious? hath he in anger shut up his tender mercies? Selah. 10 And I said, This is my infirmity: but I will remember the years of the right hand of the most High. 11
Job 6:11 – “What is my strength, that I should wait? And what is my end, that I should be patient?”
Job 9:2 – “Truly I know that it is so: But how can a man be in the right before God?”
Job 16:2 – “I have heard many such things; miserable comforters are you all.”
you can be grateful but you can also suffer. knowingly that you can be in a worst state if it werent for the mercy of God.
read the book of job he wasnt having a pleasant experience and he poured out his heart to GOD and yet God didnt impute him with sin because of his extreme suffering
So Jesus cured the blind man and the onlookers said, "what did he do to deserve this blindness" and the response was, he was blind so that he might be cured. So that guy lived to adulthood totally blind just so that Jesus could make an example of him. It just goes back to the concept that the ways of God are not the ways of man. Seek to praise, but we will never truly understand. Some men might be born just so they can die and fulfill the will of God. Job is a great book for exploring. You wouldn't be the first person to have questions after reading that.
Seek to praise, but we will never truly understand.
The word of God tells us otherwise.
Luke 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
I'm going with what the Bible teaches over the wisdom of men.
I stand corrected. There is a passage that says something to the effect of, man is among the world and will not understand the heavenly kingdom. Couldn't tell you where it was from.
Suffering, from a Catholic perspective, is containment of the Soul. It is why we Catholics Fast during Lent. The human soul left unchecked gravitates to that which is pleasurable, and that which is pleasurable draws us away from God. Suffering tames the desires of our souls, and draws us nearer to God.
From a Human perspective, we are not accustomed to the act of suffering, so it doesn't feel great to us. Those that practice regular fasting and abstinence, have trained their souls, and have a higher tolerance to suffering, and in the absence of the desire for things, are closer to God.
Suffering implies sub (under) bher (to carry)... https://www.etymonline.com/word/suffer hence being full of sin (sin-ful) when choosing to take on temptations to carry with one.
can a christian be sad and suffer?
Being sad about implies taking on the suggested temptation "aboutism" aka about/abutan (by outside) which one then carries as sadness within one until one chooses to resist temptation by letting go.
[ - ] MaryXmas 1 point 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 12:41:34 ago (+1/-0)
Christians walk the path of Christ. Usually that means hardship, poverty humiliation and many types of distress. There is a line of thinking to create your own distressful situations in order to be closer to God. Fasting is an example though flogging, sleeping without comfort(blankets, mattress, pillow), poverty, wearing itchy clothing etc. is mostly out of fashion. The joy is knowing that regardless of the circumstances or motivation, Christ will deliver believers into his kingdom and that is reason enough for abundant joy in your life. Sad is a feeling, suffering is often due to circumstance so it is important to make the distinction. Joan of arc gazed at the Eucharist as she was engulfed in flames- if only we all had this dedication to God.
A Christian can be sad and suffer. It is expected that he will sometimes be sad, and it is a guarantee that he will suffer because modeling the person of Christ is necessarily to suffer. You can't love your neighbor in the way you love yourself without suffering.
Some confusion arises because, historically, Catholic theologians used the term 'sadness' to refer to a deadly sin that amounts to what we would today call 'depression'. The sinful element of this is its tendency to submit to and identify with one's despair, succumbing to it and allowing oneself to be suppressed by it. Consider some of the symptoms we associate with depression. Isolation. Withdrawal from activities, people, and situations that used to bring us joy. Generally, a proclivity to escape and avoid the world.
That's the element that has to be avoided. We can have problems. We should not psychologically feed our problems all day. We can have sadness, but we should not dwell on our sadness.
More than anything, a Christian is expected to have HOPE and to demonstrate that hope by being resilient in the face of his struggles and his negative feelings. That said, this does not equate with suppressing them in counter-productive ways or ignorantly denying that they exist (or are real for you at a given moment). It does not mean never seeking help. We should have community and a support network to help and encourage us. If we are subsumed by a collective goal and we have a meaningful role in the community, we can usually resist a LOT. It's isolation that begins to cut the cord and worsen despair.
Anybody who has deep experience working with (or living with or caring for) people with mental illness knows well that these things have a tendency to "shrink" that person into a smaller and smaller ball of selfish impulses and strategies. It's ironic, because at the same time as these people evoke our highest sympathy, their condition causes them to become the most exploitative of those very sympathies. The people we often look at as the most significant victims will turn out to be some of the most selfish and mean-spirited people, while the people you might expect to be dicks, given your categorical system (e.g., if they're rich or high-achieving), turn out to be the most self-giving and charitable. This is the danger of succumbing to things like depression. It shrinks you into a ball of selfishness. The world seems so hostile that you are always an animal backed into a corner, and it disposes you not only to less relationships overall, but toward exploitative, co-dependent ones.
Suffering is a necessary step on the path to growth. With enough suffering, you may even grow enough to realize that the same jews who control both democrats and republicans, the same jews who control both capitalist central banks and communist central planners, also control both christianity and islam. I hope you suffer enough to figure that out.
Suffering is intrinsic to being a good Christian, it helps maintain the slave mentality. The entire religion revolves around the kvetching of Rabbi jesus’ persecution complex, and you should honour and mimic this behaviour of the downtrodden. Christianity was most popular in Rome amongst the outcasts, slaves, prostitutes, immigrants, basically anyone that was denied citizenry rights.
"THIS earth is the place for meriting, and therefore it is a place for suffering. Our true country, where God has prepared for us repose in everlasting joy, is Paradise. We have but a short time to stay in this world; but in this short time we have many labors to undergo: Man born of a woman, living for a short time, is filled with many miseries. [Job, xiv. i.] We must suffer, and all must suffer; be they just, or be they sinners, each one must carry his cross. He that carries it with patience is saved; he that carries it with impatience is lost."
"Christ suffered for us (wrote St. Peter), leaving you an example, that you should follow His steps. [1 Pet. ii. 21.]"
"But whoever desires the crown of Paradise must needs combat and suffer: If we suffer, we shall also reign. [2 Tim. ii. 12."
"Listen how Jesus advises every one who would follow Him to take up and carry his cross: Let him take up his cross, and follow Me. [Luke. ix. 23.] But we must take it up and carry it, not by constraint and against our will, but with humility, patience, and love."
[ + ] Drstrangestgov
[ - ] Drstrangestgov 3 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 12:34:06 ago (+3/-0)
[ + ] dosvydanya_freedomz
[ - ] dosvydanya_freedomz [op] 0 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 12:37:30 ago (+0/-0)*
Psalms
Chapter 77
To the chief Musician, to Jeduthun, A Psalm of Asaph.
Job 6:11 – “What is my strength, that I should wait? And what is my end, that I should be patient?”
Job 9:2 – “Truly I know that it is so: But how can a man be in the right before God?”
[ + ] MaryXmas
[ - ] MaryXmas 2 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 12:43:53 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] dosvydanya_freedomz
[ - ] dosvydanya_freedomz [op] 3 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 12:49:06 ago (+3/-0)
read the book of job he wasnt having a pleasant experience and he poured out his heart to GOD and yet God didnt impute him with sin because of his extreme suffering
[ + ] MaryXmas
[ - ] MaryXmas 3 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 14:13:09 ago (+3/-0)
Job is a great book for exploring. You wouldn't be the first person to have questions after reading that.
[ + ] Love240
[ - ] Love240 0 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 16:36:08 ago (+0/-0)
The word of God tells us otherwise.
I'm going with what the Bible teaches over the wisdom of men.
[ + ] MaryXmas
[ - ] MaryXmas 0 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 18:48:26 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] DitchPig
[ - ] DitchPig -4 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 12:39:42 ago (+3/-7)
holy fuck, escape the hebrew matrix
[ + ] GreatSatan
[ - ] GreatSatan 0 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 17:54:01 ago (+1/-1)
[ + ] DitchPig
[ - ] DitchPig -1 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 18:11:36 ago (+0/-1)
[ + ] GreatSatan
[ - ] GreatSatan 0 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 18:20:36 ago (+1/-1)
[ + ] DitchPig
[ - ] DitchPig 0 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 18:24:36 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] GreatSatan
[ - ] GreatSatan 0 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 19:23:24 ago (+1/-1)
[ + ] DitchPig
[ - ] DitchPig -1 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 19:24:07 ago (+0/-1)
lol, retard clown incel is funny.
[ + ] GreatSatan
[ - ] GreatSatan -1 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 21:22:26 ago (+0/-1)
[ + ] iSnark
[ - ] iSnark 3 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 12:40:20 ago (+4/-1)
From a Human perspective, we are not accustomed to the act of suffering, so it doesn't feel great to us. Those that practice regular fasting and abstinence, have trained their souls, and have a higher tolerance to suffering, and in the absence of the desire for things, are closer to God.
[ + ] ImplicationOverReason
[ - ] ImplicationOverReason -4 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 12:40:35 ago (+0/-4)
Suffering implies sub (under) bher (to carry)... https://www.etymonline.com/word/suffer hence being full of sin (sin-ful) when choosing to take on temptations to carry with one.
Being sad about implies taking on the suggested temptation "aboutism" aka about/abutan (by outside) which one then carries as sadness within one until one chooses to resist temptation by letting go.
[ + ] MaryXmas
[ - ] MaryXmas 1 point 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 12:41:34 ago (+1/-0)
The joy is knowing that regardless of the circumstances or motivation, Christ will deliver believers into his kingdom and that is reason enough for abundant joy in your life. Sad is a feeling, suffering is often due to circumstance so it is important to make the distinction. Joan of arc gazed at the Eucharist as she was engulfed in flames- if only we all had this dedication to God.
[ + ] CHIRO
[ - ] CHIRO 2 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 13:22:48 ago (+2/-0)*
Some confusion arises because, historically, Catholic theologians used the term 'sadness' to refer to a deadly sin that amounts to what we would today call 'depression'. The sinful element of this is its tendency to submit to and identify with one's despair, succumbing to it and allowing oneself to be suppressed by it. Consider some of the symptoms we associate with depression. Isolation. Withdrawal from activities, people, and situations that used to bring us joy. Generally, a proclivity to escape and avoid the world.
That's the element that has to be avoided. We can have problems. We should not psychologically feed our problems all day. We can have sadness, but we should not dwell on our sadness.
More than anything, a Christian is expected to have HOPE and to demonstrate that hope by being resilient in the face of his struggles and his negative feelings. That said, this does not equate with suppressing them in counter-productive ways or ignorantly denying that they exist (or are real for you at a given moment). It does not mean never seeking help. We should have community and a support network to help and encourage us. If we are subsumed by a collective goal and we have a meaningful role in the community, we can usually resist a LOT. It's isolation that begins to cut the cord and worsen despair.
Anybody who has deep experience working with (or living with or caring for) people with mental illness knows well that these things have a tendency to "shrink" that person into a smaller and smaller ball of selfish impulses and strategies. It's ironic, because at the same time as these people evoke our highest sympathy, their condition causes them to become the most exploitative of those very sympathies. The people we often look at as the most significant victims will turn out to be some of the most selfish and mean-spirited people, while the people you might expect to be dicks, given your categorical system (e.g., if they're rich or high-achieving), turn out to be the most self-giving and charitable. This is the danger of succumbing to things like depression. It shrinks you into a ball of selfishness. The world seems so hostile that you are always an animal backed into a corner, and it disposes you not only to less relationships overall, but toward exploitative, co-dependent ones.
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 1 point 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 23:26:51 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] NaturalSelectionistWorker
[ - ] NaturalSelectionistWorker -1 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 13:39:40 ago (+0/-1)
[ + ] UncleDoug
[ - ] UncleDoug -1 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 13:47:21 ago (+0/-1)
The entire religion revolves around the kvetching of Rabbi jesus’ persecution complex, and you should honour and mimic this behaviour of the downtrodden.
Christianity was most popular in Rome amongst the outcasts, slaves, prostitutes, immigrants, basically anyone that was denied citizenry rights.
[ + ] MaryXmas
[ - ] MaryXmas 3 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 14:15:38 ago (+3/-0)
[ + ] mikenigger
[ - ] mikenigger 2 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 14:32:48 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] MaryXmas
[ - ] MaryXmas 1 point 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 15:57:54 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] UncleDoug
[ - ] UncleDoug 0 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 19:47:25 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] doginventer
[ - ] doginventer 1 point 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 15:17:31 ago (+2/-1)
Your entire day seems to be much the same.
[ + ] HeyJames
[ - ] HeyJames 0 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 14:37:35 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] dosvydanya_freedomz
[ - ] dosvydanya_freedomz [op] 0 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 18:43:04 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] FacelessOne
[ - ] FacelessOne 2 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 16:02:42 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] mattsixteen24
[ - ] mattsixteen24 0 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 16:11:58 ago (+0/-0)
"THIS earth is the place for meriting, and therefore it is a place for suffering. Our true country, where God has prepared for us repose in everlasting joy, is Paradise. We have but a short time to stay in this world; but in this short time we have many labors to undergo: Man born of a woman, living for a short time, is filled with many miseries. [Job, xiv. i.] We must suffer, and all must suffer; be they just, or be they sinners, each one must carry his cross. He that carries it with patience is saved; he that carries it with impatience is lost."
"Christ suffered for us (wrote St. Peter), leaving you an example, that you should follow His steps. [1 Pet. ii. 21.]"
"But whoever desires the crown of Paradise must needs combat and suffer: If we suffer, we shall also reign. [2 Tim. ii. 12."
"Listen how Jesus advises every one who would follow Him to take up and carry his cross: Let him take up his cross, and follow Me. [Luke. ix. 23.] But we must take it up and carry it, not by constraint and against our will, but with humility, patience, and love."
excerpts from St. Alphonsus, Practice of the Love of Jesus Christ
https://www.catholictradition.org/Christ/christ7-1.htm
[ + ] Scruffy_Nerfherder
[ - ] Scruffy_Nerfherder 0 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 17:00:53 ago (+0/-0)
The best line is, "Suffering is the ultimate expression of God's love."
It can be hard to understand, but it is certainly true.
[ + ] GreatSatan
[ - ] GreatSatan 0 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 17:58:55 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] i_scream_trucks
[ - ] i_scream_trucks 0 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 20:33:56 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] GreatSatan
[ - ] GreatSatan 0 points 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 21:21:24 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Peleg
[ - ] Peleg 1 point 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 19:30:02 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 1 point 8 monthsOct 14, 2024 22:57:34 ago (+1/-0)