Beliefs can be based off facts wheras faith can not.
Swap the word belief for faith in this meme and I'd agree.
I have no religion, but I do have beliefs. I don't worship government, and the bureaucracy is not able to be a belief system at all. Bureaucracy is policies and the unelected officials who make said policies.
One could base beliefs from the policies, but that doesn't mean the policies are beliefs.
Science is still my “religion” or part of it. Ive just learned to separate science from scientific establishment, which does not always prioritize scientific principles, and is rife with bias fueled by the self interest of fallible humans that run it. The principles of good science are still sound.
You shouldn't base your world view on something unprovable. If you do, at least be ready to change when new understanding comes to light. We toil in our ignorance, and I'm too lazy to always be busting my ass.
You shouldn't just trust anything implicitly, without proof to back it up. That's faith in a nutshell.
Belief is thinking a phenomenon works a specific way due to repeatable outcomes and increased understanding.
You should think for yourself and use science that's well established and repeatable, but be ready to change gears as we expand our knowledge of the universe and natural law.
Note: when I say you I don't mean you specifically, I mean a person in general.
Science is great because the methodology is public and can be replicated. A lot of science YouTubers give better methodologies than PhDs.
But currently no one cares about replicating results. That doesn't advance careers. So it's very easy to lie because there is no one checking the results. Even most peer review is done by lazy bastards that don't read the paper.
Then there is the problem of the media. They use junk social science to push their narrative.
Science is useful but midwits trust it to blindly and that trust is thoroughly abused.
[ - ] Boyakasha 1 point 8 monthsSep 3, 2024 07:54:55 ago (+1/-0)
I don’t know that I would agree with your usage of belief. People believe all sorts of silly shit without sufficient evidence (or on faith).
I think having confidence that the sun will rise tomorrow is justified due to the testable, repeatable, verifiable pattern that persists. No faith required.
People believe most shit because everyone around them does. People instinctively know that if they believe something contradictory to what others believe the group may try to harm them. I think we unconsciously revise our observations in order to conform them to the group narrative.
There are some things that are very difficult to measure.
bureaucracy is not able to be a belief system at all. Bureaucracy is policies and the unelected officials who make said policies.
Tell me the difference between that and a gaggle of priests that run a religion? The vatican is not a bureaucracy of unelected officials who make policy? How about the Levite priests of iron age Yahweh-ism?
Don’t worship idols. Don’t eat pork. Make your sacrifices in Jerusalem.
Numbers? Leviticus? Deuteronomy? Mostly policy.
Talmud? Koran? Mostly policy. A little bit of entertainment thrown in.
The faith part is faith in the system.
Yahweh is in charge of the system and he’s a good guy
Democracy is in charge. We all get a say!
False beliefs that prop up the system run by elites for their own benefit.
Bureaucrats can be a religious group, sure. Still not a belief system, just people dolling out rules that you're supposed to have faith in, because there's no factual evidence to back up what a gaggle of priests spew forth. It's all feelings.
You're using a false dichotomy along with false equivalence in your rebuttal.
The US gov could say their rules and group are now all religious, but the entire system is not built by faith.
The policies in the Bible you bring up are based on faith that sky daddy will punish you for these actions.
The laws set forth by government are reinforced by actual evidence the punishment will be dolled out by other humans who actually exist.
You're conflating other people having faith in their belief system with people knowing cause and effect when it pertains to human law.
I stand by what I said, regardless if you can understand it or not.
I dont really think I used a false dichotomy since I didn’t rule out other systems that could work like a government bureacracy or a religious bureaucracy.
I agree a bureacracy is authoring/propagating a belief system and is not actually the belief system. Is that what you mean by false equivalence? Because I absolutely believe this is analogous behavior (woke leftist ideologues, priests and prophets of antiquity)
The US gov could say their rules and group are now all religious, but the entire system is not built by faith.
It is. Its built on the idea that the law is good and governments here to help. Any respect for our system of laws at this point is totally unjustified. And yet most of us still follow it. Even the folks here.
The policies in the Bible you bring up are based on faith that sky daddy will punish you for these actions.
Or the civil and religious authorities of ancient Cana’an. People worshipping idols would be killed. People blasheming would be killed. The religion was indivisible from the civil authorities. There were real consequences and violators were killed in horrible ways. It wasn’t abstract. Lots of other examples of this. The vatican served as a sort of loose federal government over the christian states of Europe. The monarchies were typically the enforcers of Vatican policy. They killed lots of people in the name of god.
You're conflating other people having faith in their belief system with people knowing cause and effect when it pertains to human law.
People have faith in socialism. They think they can violate all kinds of economic rules and there will be no reprucussions. Thats because their priests keep telling them no one needs to be accountable— e.g. we can print money to pay nigger bureacrats that are worth less than nothing, and it won’t effect productivity.
Liberals have a deep abiding religious believe that if you break all the rules that make nations efficient and sustainable in the long term, it will be fine. Everyone trying to maintain some semblance of economic integrity is deemed a mean nazi. Thats because their priests (kike ideologues) view pandering to the widest possible audience as the true source of their power.
Marx was right, religion is the opiate of the masses and ironically his religion is no different. Pander to your natural allies (other parasites), suppress the people which are a threat to you and don’t need you. Turn the economy into an economic shell game to live off workers. The difference is situational not functional.
What this fails to comprehend is that traditional religions were also the tools of governments and bureacracies of the past!
Where did the concept of divine right come from? Who are the nobility of europe but enslaving warlords who struck a bargain with the vatican in exchange for legitimacy?
Im reading the Old Testament and most of it is obviously political propaganda. Why do we worship Yahweh and not Dagon or Chemosh? Because side won a battle somewhere and not the other. Why are David and Solomon the “good guys” and Ahab is a bad guy? Or the kings of the Amorites or the Philistines or the Egyptians? Righteousness was arbitrary in the OT — if you pleased the right people then it was written that Yahweh loved you and could get away with anything.
Its no different with any other religion. Religion evolved as a behavior because it helps human colonies to act in unison which is a powerful ability. Religious policies should be good for the group, but cultural elites can hijiack belief systems for their own interests, using them to exploit a society and behave counter to that society’s interests.
That phenomenon occured throughout the history of Christianity and Islam and Judaism and it continues now in “secular” and atheist belief systems. Secular belief systems might reject traditional religions but they are full of irrational and magical beliefs. They are made-up religions full of false ideas and concepts and they are used by an elite group of conquerors to tyrannize you and exploit you and deceive you. Same old story. The social dynamics of these woke ideologies are not new. They constantly change and are inconsistent and schismatic within themselves because they are always being hijacked for some ad hoc political purpose. Just like the older religions.
We cannot see the forest through the trees until we understand how this process occurs and repeats itself. We are doomed to repeat this bullshit over and over until we do.
[ + ] NaturalSelectionistWorker
[ - ] NaturalSelectionistWorker 4 points 8 monthsSep 3, 2024 02:57:10 ago (+6/-2)
[ + ] boekanier
[ - ] boekanier [op] 2 points 8 monthsSep 3, 2024 05:03:12 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 1 point 8 monthsSep 3, 2024 11:31:28 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Theo
[ - ] Theo 2 points 8 monthsSep 3, 2024 03:07:11 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] boekanier
[ - ] boekanier [op] 2 points 8 monthsSep 3, 2024 05:06:44 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] Theo
[ - ] Theo 1 point 8 monthsSep 3, 2024 05:32:25 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] dulcima
[ - ] dulcima 2 points 8 monthsSep 3, 2024 04:01:13 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] Clubberlang
[ - ] Clubberlang 1 point 8 monthsSep 3, 2024 08:42:05 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] boekanier
[ - ] boekanier [op] 0 points 8 monthsSep 3, 2024 05:04:30 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Her0n
[ - ] Her0n 5 points 8 monthsSep 3, 2024 04:35:30 ago (+5/-0)
Beliefs can be based off facts wheras faith can not.
Swap the word belief for faith in this meme and I'd agree.
I have no religion, but I do have beliefs. I don't worship government, and the bureaucracy is not able to be a belief system at all. Bureaucracy is policies and the unelected officials who make said policies.
One could base beliefs from the policies, but that doesn't mean the policies are beliefs.
[ + ] TheYiddler
[ - ] TheYiddler 2 points 8 monthsSep 3, 2024 04:38:49 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] boekanier
[ - ] boekanier [op] 2 points 8 monthsSep 3, 2024 05:04:04 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] Clubberlang
[ - ] Clubberlang 0 points 8 monthsSep 3, 2024 08:41:20 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Fishsticksforever
[ - ] Fishsticksforever 0 points 8 monthsSep 3, 2024 17:37:16 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Boyakasha
[ - ] Boyakasha 1 point 8 monthsSep 3, 2024 07:55:47 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 8 monthsSep 3, 2024 10:47:35 ago (+1/-1)
[ + ] Her0n
[ - ] Her0n 0 points 8 monthsSep 3, 2024 16:44:44 ago (+0/-0)
You shouldn't just trust anything implicitly, without proof to back it up. That's faith in a nutshell.
Belief is thinking a phenomenon works a specific way due to repeatable outcomes and increased understanding.
You should think for yourself and use science that's well established and repeatable, but be ready to change gears as we expand our knowledge of the universe and natural law.
Note: when I say you I don't mean you specifically, I mean a person in general.
[ + ] TheYiddler
[ - ] TheYiddler 1 point 8 monthsSep 5, 2024 09:51:12 ago (+1/-0)
But currently no one cares about replicating results. That doesn't advance careers. So it's very easy to lie because there is no one checking the results. Even most peer review is done by lazy bastards that don't read the paper.
Then there is the problem of the media. They use junk social science to push their narrative.
Science is useful but midwits trust it to blindly and that trust is thoroughly abused.
[ + ] Her0n
[ - ] Her0n 0 points 8 monthsSep 5, 2024 20:02:09 ago (+0/-0)
It's dragging us down as a species
[ + ] Boyakasha
[ - ] Boyakasha 1 point 8 monthsSep 3, 2024 07:54:55 ago (+1/-0)
I think having confidence that the sun will rise tomorrow is justified due to the testable, repeatable, verifiable pattern that persists. No faith required.
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 8 monthsSep 3, 2024 11:38:02 ago (+1/-1)
There are some things that are very difficult to measure.
[ + ] Her0n
[ - ] Her0n 0 points 8 monthsSep 3, 2024 16:38:56 ago (+0/-0)
That doesn't change the meaning of the words. Just means you're also using them incorrectly.
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 8 monthsSep 3, 2024 11:30:00 ago (+0/-0)
Tell me the difference between that and a gaggle of priests that run a religion? The vatican is not a bureaucracy of unelected officials who make policy? How about the Levite priests of iron age Yahweh-ism?
Numbers? Leviticus? Deuteronomy? Mostly policy.
Talmud? Koran? Mostly policy. A little bit of entertainment thrown in.
The faith part is faith in the system.
False beliefs that prop up the system run by elites for their own benefit.
[ + ] Her0n
[ - ] Her0n 0 points 8 monthsSep 3, 2024 16:37:43 ago (+0/-0)
You're using a false dichotomy along with false equivalence in your rebuttal.
The US gov could say their rules and group are now all religious, but the entire system is not built by faith.
The policies in the Bible you bring up are based on faith that sky daddy will punish you for these actions.
The laws set forth by government are reinforced by actual evidence the punishment will be dolled out by other humans who actually exist.
You're conflating other people having faith in their belief system with people knowing cause and effect when it pertains to human law.
I stand by what I said, regardless if you can understand it or not.
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 8 monthsSep 3, 2024 17:19:24 ago (+0/-0)
I agree a bureacracy is authoring/propagating a belief system and is not actually the belief system. Is that what you mean by false equivalence? Because I absolutely believe this is analogous behavior (woke leftist ideologues, priests and prophets of antiquity)
It is. Its built on the idea that the law is good and governments here to help. Any respect for our system of laws at this point is totally unjustified. And yet most of us still follow it. Even the folks here.
Or the civil and religious authorities of ancient Cana’an. People worshipping idols would be killed. People blasheming would be killed. The religion was indivisible from the civil authorities. There were real consequences and violators were killed in horrible ways. It wasn’t abstract. Lots of other examples of this. The vatican served as a sort of loose federal government over the christian states of Europe. The monarchies were typically the enforcers of Vatican policy. They killed lots of people in the name of god.
People have faith in socialism. They think they can violate all kinds of economic rules and there will be no reprucussions. Thats because their priests keep telling them no one needs to be accountable— e.g. we can print money to pay nigger bureacrats that are worth less than nothing, and it won’t effect productivity.
Liberals have a deep abiding religious believe that if you break all the rules that make nations efficient and sustainable in the long term, it will be fine. Everyone trying to maintain some semblance of economic integrity is deemed a mean nazi. Thats because their priests (kike ideologues) view pandering to the widest possible audience as the true source of their power.
Marx was right, religion is the opiate of the masses and ironically his religion is no different. Pander to your natural allies (other parasites), suppress the people which are a threat to you and don’t need you. Turn the economy into an economic shell game to live off workers. The difference is situational not functional.
[ + ] Stonkmar
[ - ] Stonkmar 0 points 8 monthsSep 3, 2024 10:56:45 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 8 monthsSep 3, 2024 11:17:31 ago (+0/-0)
Where did the concept of divine right come from? Who are the nobility of europe but enslaving warlords who struck a bargain with the vatican in exchange for legitimacy?
Im reading the Old Testament and most of it is obviously political propaganda. Why do we worship Yahweh and not Dagon or Chemosh? Because side won a battle somewhere and not the other. Why are David and Solomon the “good guys” and Ahab is a bad guy? Or the kings of the Amorites or the Philistines or the Egyptians? Righteousness was arbitrary in the OT — if you pleased the right people then it was written that Yahweh loved you and could get away with anything.
Its no different with any other religion. Religion evolved as a behavior because it helps human colonies to act in unison which is a powerful ability. Religious policies should be good for the group, but cultural elites can hijiack belief systems for their own interests, using them to exploit a society and behave counter to that society’s interests.
That phenomenon occured throughout the history of Christianity and Islam and Judaism and it continues now in “secular” and atheist belief systems. Secular belief systems might reject traditional religions but they are full of irrational and magical beliefs. They are made-up religions full of false ideas and concepts and they are used by an elite group of conquerors to tyrannize you and exploit you and deceive you. Same old story. The social dynamics of these woke ideologies are not new. They constantly change and are inconsistent and schismatic within themselves because they are always being hijacked for some ad hoc political purpose. Just like the older religions.
We cannot see the forest through the trees until we understand how this process occurs and repeats itself. We are doomed to repeat this bullshit over and over until we do.