Eventually I'd like the ratio to be around 4:1. But I've lowered it and it's now 2.5:1. For every 2.5 upvotes you give you are allowed to cast 1 downvote. You would need 3655 upvotes in order to downvote again. I'll admit that's a lot. Maybe there is a way I can figure out to allow you the ability to downvote within this ratio, regardless of past voting. But you're the only one complaining about it. And your attitude doesn't help TBH.
He whines like a little bitch but he's still right. If you think this ratio helps with bots and such, fine, but if you also think it has a positive side effect of regulating your normal user's behavior, that's where I would disagree with the policy.
Reddit handles this by having a fake score. Poal handles this by not letting you use the downvote button. Scored handles this by not allowing content to get scored negatively. This website has the best system IF you're not trigger happy with downvotes. A ratio limits the ammo for those with no trigger discipline.
When you say "handles this", do you mean normalizing behavior of your main user base or to prevent bots from spamming the system?
"Trigger discipline" sounds like you essentially can't trust the average goat not to abuse their privileges and thus use the ratio to keep them in their sandbox. In other words, you are going beyond spamming and trying to normalize behavior.
Ok, fine. What is your main reason(s) for the ratio? Let's examine it's properties.
- Does it prevent someone from dumping on a user or sub? No. You can always just upvote some random shit so you can downvote some unrelated shit later. The exception being if they were to simply run out of content to upvote because there's a window of time which you can no longer upvote something I believe, right (two weeks)? Given the size of this site I think that's more than enough content for users to balance themselves out but I didn't do the math on that.
- Does it prevent infinite voting? No. You can still upvote infinitely because the ratio is a upper bound on downvotes and a lowerbound on upvotes. Is there a vote limit per day or something too? If so that in of itself seems sufficient to prevent a bot infinitely spamming votes (up or down).
- Does it prevent a new troll account from shitting up upgoat with downvotes? Well, unless I'm missing something, no. They can just upvote as much as the ratio requires first. They can even have other bots create content just so they deposit an upvote on it and cash it out on some target later. If they are patient the bots can simply upvote shit for weeks and then pull the trigger with downgoats at the right moment.
- Does it bias content to favor upvotes over downvotes? By design. But again, why is this a good thing, besides preventing bot manipulation?
Besides bots, I guess ultimately I still don't know what you're really trying to mitigate. Is it downvoting a particular user or sub out of spite? Legitimately want to know what the meat of the problem is.
I could sum it up in two words but I will elaborate a bit. Negativity bias. It alone is good reason. There are not nearly as many people motivated to upvote than there are people who are motivated to downvote. A post could be neutral or even useful and someone would find a reason to downvote it. There is no opposite to that. Yeah someone could upvote spam, but this just makes it more visible for someone else to downvote. On the other end upvotes could be seen as a liability. Advertisers are not trying to sell you shit you dislike. People don't like their "interests" or "likes" being stored in a database. I use quotes because I literally do not give a shit what you like or dislike and don't consider votes a valid way of determining that. But that trust issue is there and contributes to the problem. Negativity bias feedback loops into itself, cascading into more bullshit and negativity exponentially, causing people to not want to invest their time which causes other people to not want to invest their time². Edit: I'll add this just in case it's not clear. I would never sell user data to advertisers or any other entity.
You might have an unintended consequence of people stopping trying to "fix" the site.
I use "fix" for lack of a better word, because users imagine their vote is making a correction.
A downvote feels like we're cleaning up in a self-correcting system that, otherwise, tends to reward the most insessant serial posters of [low quality whatever].
In other words. If the intention is to stay positive and upkeep a clean home then that may work. But if a bunch of hoarders move into a cluttered household this might accidentally be the feature that hides the sponge and the broom and the vacuum; aka empowers those that have the worst impact.
Do users want spammers upvoted? Well here I go. @conspirologist and @ProudAmerican are getting upvotes for the next couple of weeks because @system decided to enact an AOU style ratio. Spam the site and I’ll upvote every single submission.
I still think spam niggers like conspirafag should get zero engagement. No comments, no votes. Make the well run dry and he ceases to profit. The fuckin window lickers and crayon eaters here don't seem to get that, and some even have a friendly relationship with the spamming, censorious faggot.
[ + ] boekanier
[ - ] boekanier 0 points 1 yearJun 5, 2024 10:38:49 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] system
[ - ] system 2 points 1 yearJun 3, 2024 20:30:57 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] observation1
[ - ] observation1 1 point 1 yearJun 4, 2024 02:44:16 ago (+1/-0)
Also, on a more serious note, posts direct linking to youtube or reddit automatically start at neg 2.
Let it be!
[ + ] v0atmage
[ - ] v0atmage 0 points 1 yearJun 4, 2024 22:09:02 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] system
[ - ] system 0 points 1 yearJun 5, 2024 09:21:05 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] v0atmage
[ - ] v0atmage 0 points 1 yearJun 5, 2024 20:09:24 ago (+0/-0)
"Trigger discipline" sounds like you essentially can't trust the average goat not to abuse their privileges and thus use the ratio to keep them in their sandbox. In other words, you are going beyond spamming and trying to normalize behavior.
Ok, fine. What is your main reason(s) for the ratio? Let's examine it's properties.
- Does it prevent someone from dumping on a user or sub? No. You can always just upvote some random shit so you can downvote some unrelated shit later. The exception being if they were to simply run out of content to upvote because there's a window of time which you can no longer upvote something I believe, right (two weeks)? Given the size of this site I think that's more than enough content for users to balance themselves out but I didn't do the math on that.
- Does it prevent infinite voting? No. You can still upvote infinitely because the ratio is a upper bound on downvotes and a lowerbound on upvotes. Is there a vote limit per day or something too? If so that in of itself seems sufficient to prevent a bot infinitely spamming votes (up or down).
- Does it prevent a new troll account from shitting up upgoat with downvotes? Well, unless I'm missing something, no. They can just upvote as much as the ratio requires first. They can even have other bots create content just so they deposit an upvote on it and cash it out on some target later. If they are patient the bots can simply upvote shit for weeks and then pull the trigger with downgoats at the right moment.
- Does it bias content to favor upvotes over downvotes? By design. But again, why is this a good thing, besides preventing bot manipulation?
Besides bots, I guess ultimately I still don't know what you're really trying to mitigate.
Is it downvoting a particular user or sub out of spite? Legitimately want to know what the meat of the problem is.
- mage
[ + ] system
[ - ] system 0 points 1 yearJun 5, 2024 22:15:36 ago (+0/-0)*
[ + ] observation1
[ - ] observation1 0 points 1 yearJun 7, 2024 13:58:02 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] system
[ - ] system 0 points 1 yearJun 7, 2024 14:52:25 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] observation1
[ - ] observation1 0 points 1 yearJun 7, 2024 15:57:34 ago (+0/-0)*
Hm.
You might have an unintended consequence of people stopping trying to "fix" the site.
I use "fix" for lack of a better word, because users imagine their vote is making a correction.
A downvote feels like we're cleaning up in a self-correcting system that, otherwise, tends to reward the most insessant serial posters of [low quality whatever].
In other words. If the intention is to stay positive and upkeep a clean home then that may work. But if a bunch of hoarders move into a cluttered household this might accidentally be the feature that hides the sponge and the broom and the vacuum; aka empowers those that have the worst impact.
[ + ] beece
[ - ] beece 2 points 1 yearJun 3, 2024 16:56:41 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] SilentByAssociation
[ - ] SilentByAssociation 2 points 1 yearJun 3, 2024 16:05:06 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] iSnark
[ - ] iSnark 1 point 1 yearJun 3, 2024 16:49:14 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] SilentByAssociation
[ - ] SilentByAssociation 1 point 1 yearJun 3, 2024 18:26:50 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] TheOriginal1Icemonkey
[ - ] TheOriginal1Icemonkey 5 points 1 yearJun 3, 2024 16:01:47 ago (+5/-0)
Go touch grass faggot.
[ + ] Spaceman84
[ - ] Spaceman84 [op] 5 points 1 yearJun 3, 2024 17:25:44 ago (+5/-0)
[ + ] TheOriginal1Icemonkey
[ - ] TheOriginal1Icemonkey 1 point 1 yearJun 3, 2024 21:32:53 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Spaceman84
[ - ] Spaceman84 [op] 4 points 1 yearJun 3, 2024 17:06:01 ago (+4/-0)
[ + ] Spaceman84
[ - ] Spaceman84 [op] 7 points 1 yearJun 3, 2024 15:10:32 ago (+7/-0)
[ + ] lord_nougat
[ - ] lord_nougat 4 points 1 yearJun 3, 2024 15:12:45 ago (+4/-0)
*SALUTE
[ + ] PeckerwoodPerry
[ - ] PeckerwoodPerry 4 points 1 yearJun 3, 2024 15:17:27 ago (+4/-0)
[ + ] Spaceman84
[ - ] Spaceman84 [op] 4 points 1 yearJun 3, 2024 15:19:31 ago (+4/-0)
[ + ] mikenigger
[ - ] mikenigger 1 point 1 yearJun 3, 2024 17:18:48 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] observation1
[ - ] observation1 0 points 1 yearJun 4, 2024 02:34:47 ago (+0/-0)