Evolutionary psychology explains why women prioritise being a part of a larger group, this is well known. Currently it's being weaponised through feminism to incite women to assist in dismantling the west from within.
This exercise perfectly encapsulates why giving women the vote was disastrous.
Just to motivate the claim that two things can be wrong, yet evaluated in different ways, just consider the thought experiment where you walk up to a fertility clinic on fire. You rush inside to find a 5-yr old (perhaps a staff member's child) pinned beneath some fallen debris. On the other side of the room, there is a canister with 5 viable embryos from artificial insemination.
Which do you save, assuming you can only save one before the flames engulf the room?
Almost everyone, Christian or otherwise, is going to tend to have the intuition that killing a fetus is in some way different than killing a person who was born and has matured. We're calling them both murder, and that term doesn't capture this difference I am pointing at. It is a limitation on the language.
The point is, you could be a Christian who thinks abortion is wrong, and you could still approach a woman who sought an abortion differently than you would approach Ted Bundy.
The situation with abortion is a lot, lot more complicated than the situation where somebody pulls out a gun and shoots an innocent person in the head. If you can't grasp this, then you're a moron, and people like Andrew are "successful" on podcasts like this just because (a) they oversimplify complicated situations and (b) come in verbally ham-fisted against a bunch of agreeable women who have no experience defending their beliefs at all.
I fucking hate these podcasts because they posture themselves as being intellectual in nature and as reflecting the pulse of the ethical debate in culture. They aren't, and they don't.
It's the Maury Povich tier of ethical debate. It's popular for a reason.
My commitment to God is my own business, but I'd be interested to know how it looks in practice when placed beside yours.
Look how stupid your response was. I said that abortion is wrong, by which I mean evil. You immediately say that I'm defending her. This is the same kind of reactive, click-whirr shit that permits our people to be serially manipulated by our enemies.
It's pretty common to think that murder deserves the death penalty. So, are you committed to the fact that every woman who has received an abortion (who is alive today) should be justifiably executed? By committed, I don't just mean wanking your dick all over a keyboard. I mean, would you commit to seeing this through today if you were in a position of power?
There were about 15 abortions per 1,000 women in 2023. If you live in a city of 100,000 residents, let's just say that amounts to 1,500 women who sought abortions. You'd round up those 1,500 and execute them, given that many could be mothers and wives who have existing children? The point isn't that abortion is good. The point is that the way it is situated in our society is a lot more complicated than murder ordinarily conceived. I urge you to think of this not just in terms of principle, like what you'd want to say seated on the Whatever podcast, but actually try to envision what this would look like.
usually punishments are given out to deter people from engaging in a behaviour. If you killed everyone for having an abortion that would probably work. It would probably work nearly as well to simply say that anyone having an abortion from here on out will receive the death penalty. It is a repugnant behaviour and just because it isn't an apples to apples comparison to a serial killer doesn't absolve any guilt from a mother that terminates the life growing inside her. The scenarios you're using to support your points are so forced and disingenuous. You're no better than the retards on this podcast. Go clutch pearls somewhere else.
Practically, I think you're right. You could punish abortion out of society to some extent. More than likely, though, with the future incentives women are going to have, not just to end their own pregnancy, but to profit from the sale of embryos (for their brain matter; see the other post on the front page about brain organoids), you're going to create a very unstable situation.
Our disagreement has nothing to do with wanting to see abortion disappear. It's about the means. You can't legislate good mothers into being. You can't legislate a mother's submission to the higher good, and utter, loving sacrifice for the sake of her children. You can legislatively saddle her with obligations. You'll only succeed at this through having totalitarian control, and only for as long as you can keep it.
You don't need totalitarian control as the state wields it. You need control over yourself and actual freedom of association. Shame the remorseless baby killing sluts. Refuse to accept them as viable candidates for becoming wives and mothers. The lies of those that would use these misguided women for their own pleasure and gain are only propped up by weak men that play the apologist for their behaviour.
Should a woman, raped by a male family member, be forced to carry that child, a 24/7 reminder of a violation which would ideally be inconceivable? How can you tell a 14 year old that she must give birth to her brother/son or else be put to death?
"a 24/7 reminder of a violation which would ideally be inconceivable" Ok, I can see how you might not do well with reading comprehension and the context of the wall of text I was responding to. Let's start with "Should a woman, raped by a male family member, be forced to carry that child," What is with you faggots and the framing you you always desperately use. "Forced to carry that child" She IS carrying that child. Ending that childs life isn't going to un-rape her. Now while I wasn't advocating for a universal death penalty for abortion, everything I said could easily be applied to rape as well. I would in fact be very comfortable with applying a universal death penalty or some kind of castration to rapists. Provided our justice system was functioning properly. However I am less willing to apply broad implications from what is a tiny fraction of cases. You don't get to use a horrific occurrence to justify an arguably more horrific policy.
They will be placed at Lebensborns around the country to make more babies, they will have no husband or no lover. The unworthy ones will be burned at the stake as a warning to the other hoes.
Okay, so burn half of them alive, and keep the other half to be used against their will as baby factories.
Maybe when you realize your ideals are just the right-wing version of the same extreme utopian nightmares as the political left, you'll begin to realize the actual job of creating a good and ethically consistent society is not as easy as proclaiming yourself the universal arbiter of morality. The hypocrisy is unreal. You can't legislate a good society into existence. People have to believe in it and want it.
[ - ] CHIRO 1 point 1 yearJun 2, 2024 12:07:01 ago (+1/-0)
Man, I don't like being accused of lying, and I didn't mean to justify it. If you think I justified abortion anywhere in this thread, point it out to me.
"the thought experiment where you walk up to a fertility clinic on fire. You rush inside to find a 5-yr old (perhaps a staff member's child) pinned beneath some fallen debris. On the other side of the room, there is a canister with 5 viable embryos from artificial insemination.
Which do you save, assuming you can only save one before the flames engulf the room?
Almost everyone, Christian or otherwise, is going to tend to have the intuition that killing a fetus is in some way different than killing a person who was born and has matured."
These thought experiments are just tools for bringing out the fact that our moral intuitions are more difficult to pin down than it might appear. It by no means justifies abortion. I'm not saying abortion isn't evil. I think that it is. But in spite of thinking it is evil in the same way that murder is, it still seems like we have different intuitions about a woman who sought an abortion and a person who goes around killing born children and/or adults in cold blood. Probably, a lot of this has to do with the fact that (i) there is some new consideration that emerges once a person is born and (ii) we recognize that the cultural conversation surrounding abortion has been heated, contentious, controversial, etc., and a lot of women who have sought abortions have believed they were morally justified (because things are so controversial).
Just telling a bunch of women they're murderers is probably not going to cut it. But if you read the extended comments I exchanged with Foo, you'll see that the answer where we treat all of these women JUST LIKE they were cold-blooded killes, e.g., by executing them, is probably not going to work either.
You're implying that human life has value based on what? Age? Usefulness? Proximity? Killing a fetus is killing a person. In no way is it different. A woman that had an abortion is damaged and probably has some mental deficiency. A woman that has killed multiples is Ted Bundy. She is indifferent to human life.
What if fertility implies a burned (life) offering (Inception towards death)? Notice fert/fero + fire/furo...
assuming you can only save one before the flames
a) What if one (living) cannot be saved from outcome (dying)...only sustained within momentum of origin?
b) What if suggested "before" inverts perceivable...forward (inception towards death) being (life)?
c) What if...
"The heat (life) is on, on the street (inception towards death)" "Inside your head, on every beat" "And the beat's so loud, deep inside" "The pressure's high, just to stay alive"
Women may have been used as a tool to kill Christianity, but the real group behind killing Christianity is kikes. Vatican II was a bunch of kikes changing Catholicism to fit what kikes wanted and it had a negative downstream effect across all Christianity.
I know what your doing and you have a foreskin hanging out the side of your mouth. In a just world this cow would be in the kitchen making sandwiches. She clearly has drinking from your well.
jews are behind almost all our troubles. White men share a little blame but only because we were cursed with empathy and let our women stray, so that's on us. Again, jews are the root to all evil. Not white women.
I'd love to, but Christ-Cucks protect the Jews. So, we have to destroy Christianity first, because the Christ-Cucks keep jumping in front of the bullets we fire at the Jews.
[ + ] UncleDoug
[ - ] UncleDoug 5 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 10:34:04 ago (+5/-0)
This exercise perfectly encapsulates why giving women the vote was disastrous.
[ + ] CHIRO
[ - ] CHIRO 3 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 09:37:39 ago (+6/-3)
Just to motivate the claim that two things can be wrong, yet evaluated in different ways, just consider the thought experiment where you walk up to a fertility clinic on fire. You rush inside to find a 5-yr old (perhaps a staff member's child) pinned beneath some fallen debris. On the other side of the room, there is a canister with 5 viable embryos from artificial insemination.
Which do you save, assuming you can only save one before the flames engulf the room?
Almost everyone, Christian or otherwise, is going to tend to have the intuition that killing a fetus is in some way different than killing a person who was born and has matured. We're calling them both murder, and that term doesn't capture this difference I am pointing at. It is a limitation on the language.
The point is, you could be a Christian who thinks abortion is wrong, and you could still approach a woman who sought an abortion differently than you would approach Ted Bundy.
The situation with abortion is a lot, lot more complicated than the situation where somebody pulls out a gun and shoots an innocent person in the head. If you can't grasp this, then you're a moron, and people like Andrew are "successful" on podcasts like this just because (a) they oversimplify complicated situations and (b) come in verbally ham-fisted against a bunch of agreeable women who have no experience defending their beliefs at all.
I fucking hate these podcasts because they posture themselves as being intellectual in nature and as reflecting the pulse of the ethical debate in culture. They aren't, and they don't.
It's the Maury Povich tier of ethical debate. It's popular for a reason.
[ + ] GreatSatan
[ - ] GreatSatan [op] 3 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 09:41:30 ago (+3/-0)
[ + ] CHIRO
[ - ] CHIRO 2 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 09:48:27 ago (+3/-1)*
Look how stupid your response was. I said that abortion is wrong, by which I mean evil. You immediately say that I'm defending her. This is the same kind of reactive, click-whirr shit that permits our people to be serially manipulated by our enemies.
It's pretty common to think that murder deserves the death penalty. So, are you committed to the fact that every woman who has received an abortion (who is alive today) should be justifiably executed? By committed, I don't just mean wanking your dick all over a keyboard. I mean, would you commit to seeing this through today if you were in a position of power?
There were about 15 abortions per 1,000 women in 2023. If you live in a city of 100,000 residents, let's just say that amounts to 1,500 women who sought abortions. You'd round up those 1,500 and execute them, given that many could be mothers and wives who have existing children? The point isn't that abortion is good. The point is that the way it is situated in our society is a lot more complicated than murder ordinarily conceived. I urge you to think of this not just in terms of principle, like what you'd want to say seated on the Whatever podcast, but actually try to envision what this would look like.
[ + ] Greskibon
[ - ] Greskibon 1 point 1 yearJun 2, 2024 10:41:26 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] CHIRO
[ - ] CHIRO 0 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 10:50:26 ago (+0/-0)
Our disagreement has nothing to do with wanting to see abortion disappear. It's about the means. You can't legislate good mothers into being. You can't legislate a mother's submission to the higher good, and utter, loving sacrifice for the sake of her children. You can legislatively saddle her with obligations. You'll only succeed at this through having totalitarian control, and only for as long as you can keep it.
[ + ] Greskibon
[ - ] Greskibon 1 point 1 yearJun 2, 2024 11:03:25 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] CHIRO
[ - ] CHIRO 0 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 11:09:48 ago (+0/-0)
This doesn't get you a universal death penalty for abortion.
[ + ] Greskibon
[ - ] Greskibon 1 point 1 yearJun 2, 2024 11:13:30 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] TheNoticing
[ - ] TheNoticing 0 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 23:25:03 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Greskibon
[ - ] Greskibon 0 points 1 yearJun 3, 2024 07:13:36 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] GreatSatan
[ - ] GreatSatan [op] 0 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 10:12:40 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] CHIRO
[ - ] CHIRO 3 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 10:18:23 ago (+3/-0)*
Maybe when you realize your ideals are just the right-wing version of the same extreme utopian nightmares as the political left, you'll begin to realize the actual job of creating a good and ethically consistent society is not as easy as proclaiming yourself the universal arbiter of morality. The hypocrisy is unreal. You can't legislate a good society into existence. People have to believe in it and want it.
[ + ] GreatSatan
[ - ] GreatSatan [op] 0 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 11:22:42 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] CHIRO
[ - ] CHIRO 2 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 11:27:42 ago (+2/-0)
If I could remember the scripture where Jesus talks about flaying your enemies alive, I'd post it here.
You sound like one heck of a guy.
[ + ] GreatSatan
[ - ] GreatSatan [op] 0 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 11:33:42 ago (+0/-0)
Numbers 31:17
[ + ] CHIRO
[ - ] CHIRO 2 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 11:39:31 ago (+2/-0)
You're batting zero. Sit down.
[ + ] GreatSatan
[ - ] GreatSatan [op] 0 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 17:01:42 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Sleazy
[ - ] Sleazy 0 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 11:42:48 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] CHIRO
[ - ] CHIRO 1 point 1 yearJun 2, 2024 11:51:19 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Sleazy
[ - ] Sleazy -1 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 11:55:57 ago (+0/-1)
[ + ] CHIRO
[ - ] CHIRO 1 point 1 yearJun 2, 2024 12:07:01 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Sleazy
[ - ] Sleazy 0 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 12:25:57 ago (+0/-0)
Which do you save, assuming you can only save one before the flames engulf the room?
Almost everyone, Christian or otherwise, is going to tend to have the intuition that killing a fetus is in some way different than killing a person who was born and has matured."
[ + ] CHIRO
[ - ] CHIRO 2 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 12:48:59 ago (+2/-0)
Just telling a bunch of women they're murderers is probably not going to cut it. But if you read the extended comments I exchanged with Foo, you'll see that the answer where we treat all of these women JUST LIKE they were cold-blooded killes, e.g., by executing them, is probably not going to work either.
[ + ] Reawakened
[ - ] Reawakened 0 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 15:37:00 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] ImplicationOverReason
[ - ] ImplicationOverReason -1 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 11:04:03 ago (+0/-1)
What if fertility implies a burned (life) offering (Inception towards death)? Notice fert/fero + fire/furo...
a) What if one (living) cannot be saved from outcome (dying)...only sustained within momentum of origin?
b) What if suggested "before" inverts perceivable...forward (inception towards death) being (life)?
c) What if...
"The heat (life) is on, on the street (inception towards death)"
"Inside your head, on every beat"
"And the beat's so loud, deep inside"
"The pressure's high, just to stay alive"
https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/glennfrey/theheatison.html
To christen/baptize/immerse/emerge (Latin emergere) - "to bring forth". It's as simple as that.
[ + ] green_man
[ - ] green_man 1 point 1 yearJun 2, 2024 10:28:58 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] CoronaHoax
[ - ] CoronaHoax 1 point 1 yearJun 2, 2024 10:28:55 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] 2Drunk
[ - ] 2Drunk 0 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 11:42:59 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] HonkyMcNiggerSpic
[ - ] HonkyMcNiggerSpic 0 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 11:17:56 ago (+1/-1)
[ + ] GreatSatan
[ - ] GreatSatan [op] 0 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 11:24:14 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Sleazy
[ - ] Sleazy 0 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 11:45:27 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] HonkyMcNiggerSpic
[ - ] HonkyMcNiggerSpic 0 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 11:47:13 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] GreatSatan
[ - ] GreatSatan [op] 0 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 17:03:23 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] ProudRebel
[ - ] ProudRebel 0 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 10:15:35 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Lordbananafist
[ - ] Lordbananafist 0 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 10:05:00 ago (+1/-1)
[ + ] Master_Foo
[ - ] Master_Foo 0 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 09:32:25 ago (+2/-2)
Instead of murdering Nigglets, Christ-Cucks adopt them.
[ + ] PotatoWhisperer2
[ - ] PotatoWhisperer2 1 point 1 yearJun 2, 2024 13:31:42 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Master_Foo
[ - ] Master_Foo 0 points 1 yearJun 2, 2024 13:46:24 ago (+0/-0)
So, we have to destroy Christianity first, because the Christ-Cucks keep jumping in front of the bullets we fire at the Jews.
Don't blame me, blame the Christ-Cucks.