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How do we know that Biblical characters such as Mary even really existed?

submitted by The_Reunto to AskAChristian 1 monthMar 28, 2024 17:36:07 ago (+2/-2)     (AskAChristian)

@Lost_In_The_Thinking


23 comments block


[ - ] purityspiral 0 points 4 weeksMar 30, 2024 12:05:07 ago (+0/-0)

Dude, I'm not entirely sure Elon Musk exists.

[ - ] AugustineOfHippo2 1 point 1 monthMar 28, 2024 18:14:37 ago (+1/-0)

There are Many published books on the writings of the early church fathers that go into detail about the people in the Bible:

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=early+church+fathers&crid=Y3T75NQTAOWW&sprefix=early+church+fathers%2Caps%2C477&ref=nb_sb_noss_1

[ - ] Lost_In_The_Thinking 1 point 1 monthMar 28, 2024 17:51:40 ago (+1/-0)

Did you delete my comment in your earlier post? It's been deleted, and I didn't do it.

[ - ] Lost_In_The_Thinking 1 point 1 monthMar 28, 2024 17:48:32 ago (+1/-0)

I was just stating my opinion in your earlier post. It's still a good question, though. How DO we know?

[ - ] iSnark 1 point 1 monthMar 28, 2024 18:00:45 ago (+2/-1)

It is written in out Hearts! The Brain is useless in trying to answer these types of Spiritual questions! It's like saying, "How can we know there are galaxies out beyond Earth, since we can not see them with our best telescopes" (Synonymous to the limitations of our brains), But then we create a different means of scanning space, and we still don't see the other galaxies, BUT, we see their effect on other space masses. (Synonymous to Our Faith). We recognize them even though we did not see, touch, or otherwise experience them. There is a separation between what's in the real world, and, what we get to know about the totality as humans, versus, what we will know about totality when we shed our bodies, and only our Soul remains...

[ - ] Lost_In_The_Thinking 0 points 1 monthMar 29, 2024 00:06:12 ago (+0/-0)

Are you being facetious? What you're saying is equivalent to saying "it was real in my mind".

[ - ] iSnark 0 points 1 monthMar 29, 2024 01:15:06 ago (+0/-0)

That's not what I'm saying at all! What I am saying,is that for most practical things of this Earth, Our brains, are sufficient. However, When tackling Matters of Faith, our brains fail us. That's WHY, these Spiritual matters ARE "Matters of Faith", Because, We are NOT imbued with the capacity to understand those things that God does not, at this time, want us to understand. We live behind the veil, as it's said, when we leave this Earth, and God Willing, go to Heaven, we to will understand then, the things we can not understand in this life.

[ - ] SumerBreeze 0 points 1 monthMar 28, 2024 18:07:13 ago (+0/-0)

The question you should be asking is if there are other historical documents, like this one from Rome - letter from Pilate to Caesar about Jesus:

https://inv.n8pjl.ca/watch?v=nQUJGceTH9I

There are many documents hidden from the public purposefully. Most people don’t even mention these actual historical moments because separation of Church from public education or some other judaised nonsense.

How many middle easterners have “golden colored beards” like how Jesus was officially described by Roman documents?

[ - ] dirtywhiteboy 0 points 1 monthMar 28, 2024 17:50:40 ago (+1/-1)

how do you know the earth is round

[ - ] Lost_In_The_Thinking -1 points 1 monthMar 28, 2024 17:52:05 ago (+0/-1)

Are they the same thing, and can they be proven in the same way?

[ - ] The_Reunto [op] 0 points 1 monthMar 28, 2024 19:31:43 ago (+0/-0)

Solid topic, thanks Lost_In_The_Thinking. Your point is good too. While the curvature of the earth can be readily retested and verified, history is a soft-science with a higher degree of uncertainty. Our standard of evidence for historical figures would still point toward the confirmed existence of many Biblical characters (if not all). But the existence of a person is one thing, confirming the accounts of what they do is a different thing.

Even if a collection of materials pointed towards supporting a hypothesis, there would still be room for counter-theories.

Thomas Aquinas' approach was essentially to propose that we should evaluate any theory for internal consistency (discarding the inconsistent) and from the remaining theories, feel out which one resonates the most with us.

If we have multiple competing theories that equally 'feel right', we can either take the reductionist perspective to reject all until a winner takes priority, or to take the pluralistic perspective and hold multiple perspectives as distinct schools of thought that are essentially different but equally valid epistemological tools for approaching/exploring reality. Some tools will offer more utility than others, which can sometimes inform our preference.

If that is our approach, and if we come to the conclusion that God exists and that the Biblical version of God is faithful to the version of God we believe to be true, that may drive our faith in the surrounding materials.

In a sense, this is also how scientific theories are held. From what we can readily test, if a theory is consistent with those observations we tend to give more clout to that theory and its predictive power. That predictive power may be for past, present, or future events/details.

So for the Bible, if our conclusions about what the perfect being would be aligns with the descriptions in the Bible, that tends to lend to the Bible's clout in speaking to other topics, including Biblical characters other than the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

There are certain things history as a science can't weigh. In the same way that empirical science can't put God in a test-tube, the method of history verification doesn't weigh miracles, only that something was observed/experienced (it scrutinizes witness accounts for fabrications / manipulations). Just because a tool does not measure something does not mean that thing doesn't exist.

To offer a TL;DR summary: feel free to test the Bible using the same standard of evidence that is granted to all other ancient history; see what you get.

[ - ] Lost_In_The_Thinking 0 points 1 monthMar 29, 2024 00:12:30 ago (+0/-0)

Earlier commenter said:

how do you know the earth is round

Your comment was:

wall of text

When you can quantify feelings and extremely subjective history in the same manner as proving the earth is round, we'll talk. Until then, I'm going with what I said. Also, you said:

feel free to test the Bible using the same standard of evidence that is granted to all other ancient history; see what you get

That's laughable. The Bible is extremely erroneous history, except where it benefits jews. Have you ever counted the number of people jews claim even lived in the regions they lived, or the numbers in their armies, or the number of men they killed? They are enormous and far, far outnumber the number of people who even lived in the area between Minor Asia and Arabia at that time. jews are liars, and always have been.

[ - ] The_Reunto [op] 0 points 1 monthMar 29, 2024 00:15:49 ago (+0/-0)

All I caught from you was a wall of text that says you don't understand how history as a science works.

[ - ] Lost_In_The_Thinking 0 points 1 monthMar 29, 2024 09:32:52 ago (+0/-0)

If you can't quantify it, it's not science. It's opinion.

[ - ] dirtywhiteboy -1 points 1 monthMar 28, 2024 18:05:49 ago (+0/-1)

seeing is believing. there is no proving any of this shit unless youve seent it.

[ - ] The_Reunto [op] 1 point 1 monthMar 28, 2024 20:20:07 ago (+1/-0)

Even if you see something, it doesn't mean you weren't just seeing a trick/illusion of some kind. Your understanding of your experiences takes faith!

[ - ] dirtywhiteboy -1 points 1 monthMar 28, 2024 20:21:13 ago (+0/-1)

bullshit. im not a schitzo retard. if i see it, its because it happened. im not letting someone like you gaslight me into thinking im crazy. fuck off.

[ - ] The_Reunto [op] 0 points 1 monthMar 28, 2024 20:34:26 ago (+0/-0)

Magicians must have fun with you.

[ - ] dirtywhiteboy 0 points 1 monthMar 28, 2024 20:37:52 ago (+0/-0)

their slights do not phase me. i know what they did. magic isnt real. fuck off.

[ - ] The_Reunto [op] 0 points 1 monthMar 28, 2024 20:47:24 ago (+0/-0)

If you believe it is impossible to trick you with sleight of hand, you are likely over-estimating your abilities.

You may have a high confidence in your ability to discern fact from fiction, but confidence in itself is founded in faith.

[ - ] dirtywhiteboy 0 points 1 monthMar 28, 2024 21:08:15 ago (+0/-0)

lol

[ - ] TheOriginal1Icemonkey 0 points 1 monthMar 28, 2024 23:45:43 ago (+0/-0)

Seeing is not believing it don't
Mean a thing
Although it appears to be that
The loser is king
I can understand that what
You see you think is real
But underneath the surface is
A wound that cannot heal
Yeah loser

[ - ] dirtywhiteboy 1 point 1 monthMar 29, 2024 00:26:03 ago (+1/-0)

lol