You clearly do not understand Catholic dogma/doctrine even if you were raised in it. It's probably not your fault either. I've seen some terrible, heretical Sunday school teachers in my day. But armed with that knowledge, you should revisit the Catholic catechism and re-evaluate whether you disagree with what Sunday school teachers told you, or what the doctrines of the Catholic faith actually say. My hunch here is that you will agree with what Catholicism is actually about. My hunch here is that you should give Catholicism an honest chance.
The concept of praying to saints comes from James 5:16
"Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much." - James 5:16
Praying to saints in that context is not worship, it is the same kind of concept as asking any brother or sister in a congregation to "wish me luck." Now imagine you have a loving and supportive grandfather that said they would always watch over you, they passed away, and now you are openly voicing an express to him "wish me luck." That isn't worshiping your grandfather, but it is a form of veneration. The Church is a family. Those canonized saints are part of your family. Prayer to them isn't worship.
Part of the Church is living here on earth, another part of the Church is living in heaven. Asking for a saint in heaven to pray for you is equivalent to asking the person next to you in a pew to pray for you. The difference is that those whom are awake/living in heaven have experienced sanctification and therefore are in a better state of righteousness. This would mean that their prayers "availeth much" per James 5:16.
The Church recognizes a canonized list of saints, some with patronages based on their focuses of faith. But, just because your grandfather isn't canonized does not mean that they aren't a living saint in heaven that could be appealed to for their prayers.
The rosary starts with the Lord's Prayer. The prayer to Mary for her prayers is largely a recitation of parts of Luke 1 with an added line appealing for her to "pray for us sinners".
The depth of veneration for Mary comes from some deeper concepts about her relationship to Jesus and the traditional role of a mother to a son, and vice versa. The Church, as the body of Christ would venerate and honour Mary as a mother. The line "honour thy father and mother" does not mean "worship thy father and mother", but there is very clearly a duty Christ would have within His human nature to honour Mary. When Jesus turned water into wine, we see that Mary was running the party. As much as she was the hostess of the party, there is a certain title or honour that she would have with respect to her role relative to Christ in heaven. Queen of heaven isn't meant to signify divinity, it is an exultation based on her relationship to Christ, the King of kings. Christ has perfect love for the Mother of God, and it is essentially a shining example for how all children should honour their mothers. Mary would be a mother to all of those in Christ.
The simplest way I've heard the rosary explained is that because humans are creatures of repetition and patterns, rites and rituals appeal to that. But, scripture still tells us to not get lost in empty phrases and going through the motions as though form replaces substance. Some prayers are for the sake of community and solidarity, spoken together, but your own private prayers are a different story.
I think many cultural Catholics get the whole praying to saints bit wrong. Some of them really do turn it into idolatry, even though that isn't the intention. A great example is if someone were to openly pray something like "Dear St Christopher, find this missing thing for me". That is appealing to a saint for the purpose of material agency as though they were some kind of lesser deity acting with an individual agency. The Catholic approach would be "St Christopher, pray for me that God will show me what I need to find". And even then, there is nothing obliging a Catholic to reach out to a particular saint as opposed to just directly praying to God. Even the rosary starts with a direct appeal to God and the goes over indirect appeals from there.
The_Reunto 0 points 2 months ago
You clearly do not understand Catholic dogma/doctrine even if you were raised in it. It's probably not your fault either. I've seen some terrible, heretical Sunday school teachers in my day. But armed with that knowledge, you should revisit the Catholic catechism and re-evaluate whether you disagree with what Sunday school teachers told you, or what the doctrines of the Catholic faith actually say. My hunch here is that you will agree with what Catholicism is actually about. My hunch here is that you should give Catholicism an honest chance.
The concept of praying to saints comes from James 5:16
"Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much." - James 5:16
Praying to saints in that context is not worship, it is the same kind of concept as asking any brother or sister in a congregation to "wish me luck." Now imagine you have a loving and supportive grandfather that said they would always watch over you, they passed away, and now you are openly voicing an express to him "wish me luck." That isn't worshiping your grandfather, but it is a form of veneration. The Church is a family. Those canonized saints are part of your family. Prayer to them isn't worship.
Part of the Church is living here on earth, another part of the Church is living in heaven. Asking for a saint in heaven to pray for you is equivalent to asking the person next to you in a pew to pray for you. The difference is that those whom are awake/living in heaven have experienced sanctification and therefore are in a better state of righteousness. This would mean that their prayers "availeth much" per James 5:16.
The Church recognizes a canonized list of saints, some with patronages based on their focuses of faith. But, just because your grandfather isn't canonized does not mean that they aren't a living saint in heaven that could be appealed to for their prayers.
The rosary starts with the Lord's Prayer. The prayer to Mary for her prayers is largely a recitation of parts of Luke 1 with an added line appealing for her to "pray for us sinners".
The depth of veneration for Mary comes from some deeper concepts about her relationship to Jesus and the traditional role of a mother to a son, and vice versa. The Church, as the body of Christ would venerate and honour Mary as a mother. The line "honour thy father and mother" does not mean "worship thy father and mother", but there is very clearly a duty Christ would have within His human nature to honour Mary. When Jesus turned water into wine, we see that Mary was running the party. As much as she was the hostess of the party, there is a certain title or honour that she would have with respect to her role relative to Christ in heaven. Queen of heaven isn't meant to signify divinity, it is an exultation based on her relationship to Christ, the King of kings. Christ has perfect love for the Mother of God, and it is essentially a shining example for how all children should honour their mothers. Mary would be a mother to all of those in Christ.
The simplest way I've heard the rosary explained is that because humans are creatures of repetition and patterns, rites and rituals appeal to that. But, scripture still tells us to not get lost in empty phrases and going through the motions as though form replaces substance. Some prayers are for the sake of community and solidarity, spoken together, but your own private prayers are a different story.
I think many cultural Catholics get the whole praying to saints bit wrong. Some of them really do turn it into idolatry, even though that isn't the intention. A great example is if someone were to openly pray something like "Dear St Christopher, find this missing thing for me". That is appealing to a saint for the purpose of material agency as though they were some kind of lesser deity acting with an individual agency. The Catholic approach would be "St Christopher, pray for me that God will show me what I need to find". And even then, there is nothing obliging a Catholic to reach out to a particular saint as opposed to just directly praying to God. Even the rosary starts with a direct appeal to God and the goes over indirect appeals from there.
Pardon the rant. It's just a complicated topic.