one question here: do you fully understand what is being spoken in a latin mass? because as as i'm aware only a few selected people understand the dead language.
if the vulgar mass is difficult to understand to the common catholic church goer then how in the world are they going to understand whats being spoken in a language that they dont speak?
I started attending the TLM in 2010, knew not a word of Latin. I purchased a 1962 Missal, and attended Mass weekly. The Missal has the Mass in liturgical Latin on the left page, and English on the right page. It was a challenge at first, but it wasn't long before I started really getting it. So much so, that I didn't need to rely on the book for prayers and responses. Today, I can recite most of the more common prayers by memory, including almost being able to say the full Rosary in Latin.
The Catholic Church purposely used Latin as its Universal language specifically BECAUSE it is considered to be a "dead" language. In Latin, there is no ambiguity in the meaning of words, like there is in English and other modern languages. It's why I think that the Vatican want's to get rid of it! In English, they can create confusion by altering the words. In Latin it is what it is.
so you are saying that people that do not understand can look in to a translated page of what is spoken,right?
so, how is that different from people doing it in the local vulgate language??
again, its retarded. does jesus cant understand english? or german or whatever other language that the people speak. see this one of the reasons why the reformation and counter reformation happened.
trad catholics may mean well but in this instance. no offense, its stupid.
In Latin, there is no ambiguity in the meaning of words, like there is in English and other modern languages
and yet you need to translate the hymnal in to the vulgate languages. sorry but that still retarded
[ - ] iSnark [op] 1 point 4 monthsDec 31, 2023 20:01:54 ago (+1/-0)
The point is that in Latin, a word has a specific meaning, that that same word, translated into English, may have a dozen meanings. The intended meaning in Latin is specific, if can not be fudged, the word can not be monkeyed with to alter the context of the sentence. What the early Catholics read and understood, IS what we read and understand today. It is the problem that the New Mass faces, the language (in English) has been gradually shifted to change the context & meaning of doctrine. It's what Pope Francis is doing to secure acceptance of homosexuality in the Mass.
ok personally i like to see and hear something in a language that i can understand. i was baptized catholic as a child but i prefer protestant liturgy for obvious reasons.
the catholics certainly have respect and dignity for their services while some protestants like the charismatics love to make a show of their services. however, just because it feels and looks dignified doesnt mean that its biblical.
the apostles never held a mass in their lives. they had agape feats which they celebrated the body with the congregants but they didnt had this type of liturgy which was invented way later on even after constantine
The part of this that I failed (In Hindsight) to mention, Is that Catholicism is known Globally. When the Church used Latin as their primary language, I could go to Mass ANYWHERE in the World, and fully understand the Mass. Be it China, Africa, Germany, Sweden, Russia, you name it! The Mass could be followed anywhere by anybody.
When the Church used Latin as their primary language, I could go to Mass ANYWHERE in the World, and fully understand the Mass.
only the monks, priests, merchants and royals spoke the language in medieval times. btw, until the counter reformation. the bible was never in vulgate only in latin. no translation or anything of the sort. in other words your claim is false, kind of. if you were a peasant or a poor bastard.
you were at the mercy of the priest. had to pay for your indulgences as well. this is history
[ + ] TheOriginal1Icemonkey
[ - ] TheOriginal1Icemonkey 2 points 4 monthsDec 31, 2023 19:31:54 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] Gowithit
[ - ] Gowithit 2 points 4 monthsDec 31, 2023 19:33:13 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] iSnark
[ - ] iSnark [op] 0 points 4 monthsDec 31, 2023 19:41:30 ago (+0/-0)*
[ + ] lord_nougat
[ - ] lord_nougat 1 point 4 monthsDec 31, 2023 19:29:04 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] iSnark
[ - ] iSnark [op] 1 point 4 monthsDec 31, 2023 19:42:15 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] dosvydanya_freedomz
[ - ] dosvydanya_freedomz 1 point 4 monthsDec 31, 2023 19:26:32 ago (+1/-0)
if the vulgar mass is difficult to understand to the common catholic church goer then how in the world are they going to understand whats being spoken in a language that they dont speak?
that's kind of retarded if you ask me
[ + ] iSnark
[ - ] iSnark [op] 2 points 4 monthsDec 31, 2023 19:39:54 ago (+2/-0)
I started attending the TLM in 2010, knew not a word of Latin. I purchased a 1962 Missal, and attended Mass weekly. The Missal has the Mass in liturgical Latin on the left page, and English on the right page. It was a challenge at first, but it wasn't long before I started really getting it. So much so, that I didn't need to rely on the book for prayers and responses. Today, I can recite most of the more common prayers by memory, including almost being able to say the full Rosary in Latin.
The Catholic Church purposely used Latin as its Universal language specifically BECAUSE it is considered to be a "dead" language. In Latin, there is no ambiguity in the meaning of words, like there is in English and other modern languages. It's why I think that the Vatican want's to get rid of it! In English, they can create confusion by altering the words. In Latin it is what it is.
Hope this helps.
[ + ] dosvydanya_freedomz
[ - ] dosvydanya_freedomz 1 point 4 monthsDec 31, 2023 19:53:35 ago (+1/-0)
so, how is that different from people doing it in the local vulgate language??
again, its retarded. does jesus cant understand english? or german or whatever other language that the people speak. see this one of the reasons why the reformation and counter reformation happened.
trad catholics may mean well but in this instance. no offense, its stupid.
and yet you need to translate the hymnal in to the vulgate languages. sorry but that still retarded
[ + ] iSnark
[ - ] iSnark [op] 1 point 4 monthsDec 31, 2023 20:01:54 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] dosvydanya_freedomz
[ - ] dosvydanya_freedomz 0 points 4 monthsDec 31, 2023 20:30:15 ago (+0/-0)
to each its own i'd say
[ + ] deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 4 monthsJan 1, 2024 01:21:58 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] dosvydanya_freedomz
[ - ] dosvydanya_freedomz 0 points 4 monthsJan 1, 2024 08:00:41 ago (+0/-0)
the apostles never held a mass in their lives. they had agape feats which they celebrated the body with the congregants but they didnt had this type of liturgy which was invented way later on even after constantine
catholics claims otherwise though
[ + ] iSnark
[ - ] iSnark [op] 0 points 3 monthsJan 7, 2024 15:48:59 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] dosvydanya_freedomz
[ - ] dosvydanya_freedomz 0 points 3 monthsJan 7, 2024 19:13:37 ago (+0/-0)*
only the monks, priests, merchants and royals spoke the language in medieval times. btw, until the counter reformation. the bible was never in vulgate only in latin. no translation or anything of the sort. in other words your claim is false, kind of. if you were a peasant or a poor bastard.
you were at the mercy of the priest. had to pay for your indulgences as well. this is history
it is written:
"my people perish for the lack of knowledge"