No different than filling up a gas tank. The energy in there is enormous. Not sure how they do refining but maybe they could use more of the oil to run power plants than make it into gasoline. Maybe his argument is that given whatever government restrictions there are that keep more powerplants from being made, these electric car chargers greatly exacerbate the problem in Commiefornia.
The things that use the most energy is moving and heating/cooling stuff. A car does both at the same time, and it's not a light thing to be moving. So it's going to take a large amount of energy, the kind of energy typically reserved for chemical reactions. Moving that into a measurable, in-your-face number such as kilowatts, makes it more obvious for people who don't already know.
And as a side note: it's kilowattsNOTkilowatts per second/hour. The watt is a measure of joules per second, meaning it already contains a time reference.
Just to put some numbers to that, when you fill up your car the gas pump is putting out approximately 10 Megawatts of power stored in the chemical form. So yeah, massive energy transfer.
[ - ] 2Drunk 1 point 1.5 yearsNov 16, 2023 22:34:26 ago (+1/-0)
Fun fact. When you scribe to a "green energy" service plan all you night time energy is fossil fuel or nuclear. The green energy is sold to "dirty" energy providers during the day when demand is low. The "green energy" provider buys it from the dirty energy at night in high peak hours. Because the energy you buy is from a "green energy provider" it's 100% green.
Where do you think they are storing all that solar power form night time use? That would be one large battery farm.
I understand what you are saying, but that is a debatable statement because of the "grid".
The grid ties all energy sources together - and that is why nobody knows where "their" electrons actually source from, be it nuclear or solar or coal, etc.
At any given time, a huge portion of the grid is fossil fuels for sure, but during the peak solar times, California actually struggles with an overload of energy.
Big power plants can't power up and down at a moments notice, which is why the big ones - nuclear and coal, etc - are used for the "base" loads. These are the constant things that are always a known power draw. If too much power is added to the grid, then the typical plug values - 120v/220v will go up, and not a lot of electrical equipment likes that extra push.
Using the excess solar for these chargers would be an ideal solution, in a perfect world, but California especially, is not anywhere near a perfect world.
I would guess those chargers are powered maybe 15-20% of the time by excess solar, which isn't a lot. Definitely not enough to call them green.
Absolutely true. You're a mathematical moron if you think differently. Literally find an energy calculator with gas vs some other source and you'll see. This isn't rocket science here.
Here is the math laid out for you. As you can see the Tesla requires SIGNIFICANTLY less energy to travel the same distance. In fact, the gas car takes almost FIVE TIMES MORE ENERGY to travel the same distance. You could move almost 5 Teslas 495 miles for the same energy it would take to move just one gas powered car. The electric energy is easier to transport and can come from many sources. The REAL PROBLEM is the time it takes to charge and how these batteries will burn the shit out of everything and you can't stop it easily as I said.
Comparison of Energy Consumption for Traveling 495 Miles
Mid-Size Car with 18-Gallon Fuel Tank: - Fuel Tank Capacity: 18 gallons - Travel Distance: 495 miles - Energy Content of Gasoline: 114,000 BTUs per gallon - Total Energy Consumption: - Calculation: 18 gallons x 114,000 BTUs/gallon - Result: 2,052,000 BTUs - Conclusion: The mid-size car can travel 495 miles on 18 gallons of gasoline, equating to a total energy consumption of 2,052,000 BTUs.
Tesla Model 3 Long Range with 75 kWh Battery: - Battery Capacity: 75 kWh - Range per Charge: 310 miles - Number of Charges Required for 495 Miles: - Calculation: 495 miles / 310 miles per charge - Result: Approximately 1.60 charges - Charging Power: 135 kW - Charging Time for Full Charge: - Calculation: 75 kWh / 135 kW = 0.56 hours - Charging Time for 495 Miles: - Calculation: 1.60 charges x 0.56 hours/charge = 0.9 hours - Result: Approximately 0.9 hours for 495 miles - Total Energy Consumption: - Calculation for kWh: 0.9 hours x 135 kW = 121.5 kWh - Conversion to BTUs: 121.5 kWh x 3,412 BTUs/kWh = 414,558 BTUs - Result: 414,558 BTUs - Conclusion: To travel 495 miles, the Tesla Model 3 Long Range requires approximately 1.60 charges at a 135 kW charging rate, resulting in a total energy consumption of about 414,558 BTUs and a total charging time of approximately 0.9 hours.
[ + ] Leveraction
[ - ] Leveraction 4 points 1.5 yearsNov 16, 2023 22:23:20 ago (+4/-0)
[ + ] Prairie
[ - ] Prairie 3 points 1.5 yearsNov 16, 2023 23:11:20 ago (+3/-0)
[ + ] PotatoWhisperer2
[ - ] PotatoWhisperer2 1 point 1.5 yearsNov 17, 2023 01:49:14 ago (+1/-0)
And as a side note: it's kilowatts NOT kilowatts per second/hour. The watt is a measure of joules per second, meaning it already contains a time reference.
[ + ] con77
[ - ] con77 [op] 0 points 1.5 yearsNov 17, 2023 03:29:16 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] shadowwolf225
[ - ] shadowwolf225 1 point 1.4 yearsDec 5, 2023 20:54:38 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] con77
[ - ] con77 [op] 0 points 1.5 yearsNov 17, 2023 03:28:05 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Sector2
[ - ] Sector2 0 points 1.5 yearsNov 17, 2023 10:14:28 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] localsal
[ - ] localsal 2 points 1.5 yearsNov 16, 2023 22:06:17 ago (+2/-0)
Using these chargers at night requires the power to be generated from fossil fuels.
[ + ] 2Drunk
[ - ] 2Drunk 1 point 1.5 yearsNov 16, 2023 22:34:26 ago (+1/-0)
Where do you think they are storing all that solar power form night time use? That would be one large battery farm.
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander 1 point 1.5 yearsNov 17, 2023 11:12:38 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] NoRefunds
[ - ] NoRefunds 0 points 1.5 yearsNov 17, 2023 07:27:26 ago (+0/-0)
Solar does not power any of these sites at all.
[ + ] localsal
[ - ] localsal 0 points 1.5 yearsNov 17, 2023 13:12:53 ago (+0/-0)
The grid ties all energy sources together - and that is why nobody knows where "their" electrons actually source from, be it nuclear or solar or coal, etc.
At any given time, a huge portion of the grid is fossil fuels for sure, but during the peak solar times, California actually struggles with an overload of energy.
Big power plants can't power up and down at a moments notice, which is why the big ones - nuclear and coal, etc - are used for the "base" loads. These are the constant things that are always a known power draw. If too much power is added to the grid, then the typical plug values - 120v/220v will go up, and not a lot of electrical equipment likes that extra push.
Using the excess solar for these chargers would be an ideal solution, in a perfect world, but California especially, is not anywhere near a perfect world.
I would guess those chargers are powered maybe 15-20% of the time by excess solar, which isn't a lot. Definitely not enough to call them green.
[ + ] albatrosv15
[ - ] albatrosv15 1 point 1.5 yearsNov 17, 2023 06:53:25 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Sector2
[ - ] Sector2 0 points 1.5 yearsNov 17, 2023 10:18:56 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] x0x7
[ - ] x0x7 0 points 1.5 yearsNov 17, 2023 09:09:54 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] jigganiggaboo
[ - ] jigganiggaboo 0 points 1.5 yearsNov 17, 2023 04:58:39 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] drhitler
[ - ] drhitler 0 points 1.5 yearsNov 17, 2023 00:15:34 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] rzr97
[ - ] rzr97 -2 points 1.5 yearsNov 17, 2023 01:41:09 ago (+0/-2)
Folks, electricity is just energy. That's it. This isn't magic. Electric cars don't require more energy than gas cars.
These are stupid arguments by stupid people.
If you want to pick on electric cars focus on how long they take to charge and how the fires are hellacious. The energy arguments are retarded.
[ + ] con77
[ - ] con77 [op] 0 points 1.5 yearsNov 17, 2023 03:30:12 ago (+1/-1)
[ + ] rzr97
[ - ] rzr97 0 points 1.5 yearsNov 17, 2023 11:18:45 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] rzr97
[ - ] rzr97 0 points 1.5 yearsNov 17, 2023 14:45:28 ago (+0/-0)*
Comparison of Energy Consumption for Traveling 495 Miles
Mid-Size Car with 18-Gallon Fuel Tank:
- Fuel Tank Capacity: 18 gallons
- Travel Distance: 495 miles
- Energy Content of Gasoline: 114,000 BTUs per gallon
- Total Energy Consumption:
- Calculation: 18 gallons x 114,000 BTUs/gallon
- Result: 2,052,000 BTUs
- Conclusion: The mid-size car can travel 495 miles on 18 gallons of gasoline, equating to a total energy consumption of 2,052,000 BTUs.
Tesla Model 3 Long Range with 75 kWh Battery:
- Battery Capacity: 75 kWh
- Range per Charge: 310 miles
- Number of Charges Required for 495 Miles:
- Calculation: 495 miles / 310 miles per charge
- Result: Approximately 1.60 charges
- Charging Power: 135 kW
- Charging Time for Full Charge:
- Calculation: 75 kWh / 135 kW = 0.56 hours
- Charging Time for 495 Miles:
- Calculation: 1.60 charges x 0.56 hours/charge = 0.9 hours
- Result: Approximately 0.9 hours for 495 miles
- Total Energy Consumption:
- Calculation for kWh: 0.9 hours x 135 kW = 121.5 kWh
- Conversion to BTUs: 121.5 kWh x 3,412 BTUs/kWh = 414,558 BTUs
- Result: 414,558 BTUs
- Conclusion: To travel 495 miles, the Tesla Model 3 Long Range requires approximately 1.60 charges at a 135 kW charging rate, resulting in a total energy consumption of about 414,558 BTUs and a total charging time of approximately 0.9 hours.