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[ - ] SumerBreeze 3 points 8 monthsAug 26, 2023 19:22:35 ago (+3/-0)

Ok, noodle-armed fattie.

[ - ] AntiPostmodernist [op] -5 points 8 monthsAug 26, 2023 19:25:55 ago (+0/-5)

The video talks about making assumptions. Including ones that make no sense.
Do you think I could be living the life I am, doing the work I'm doing, and maintain a large body weight with spindly arms?

[ - ] SumerBreeze 4 points 8 monthsAug 26, 2023 19:33:08 ago (+4/-0)

Sure, why not? They give you free fries for your break, right?

[ - ] deleted 2 points 8 monthsAug 27, 2023 01:16:33 ago (+2/-0)

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[ - ] AntiPostmodernist [op] -3 points 8 monthsAug 26, 2023 19:37:06 ago (+0/-3)

No. I don't work a job were I get breaks. I don't work in fast food.

[ - ] Ex_hack 1 point 8 monthsAug 26, 2023 19:38:23 ago (+1/-0)

Evey job I've ever had included breaks.

[ - ] AntiPostmodernist [op] -1 points 8 monthsAug 26, 2023 20:54:43 ago (+0/-1)

-and fries?

[ - ] Lost_In_The_Thinking 1 point 8 monthsAug 26, 2023 20:55:21 ago (+1/-0)

Every job legally mandates ten-minute breaks after a certain period of time. I don't think you have a job.

[ - ] AntiPostmodernist [op] -1 points 8 monthsAug 26, 2023 20:57:24 ago (+0/-1)

I work in the gig economy, might get breaks once I have a proper job.
I need to get that before the air gets too cold. Should be easy enough.

[ - ] PearofAnguishJuniorManager 2 points 8 monthsAug 26, 2023 20:09:05 ago (+2/-0)

Listen faggot. I plan everything; results being that I have no drama in my life. 56 years old, everything has run like clockwork. All my drama comes from my liberal mother and sister that are constantly getting into trouble because they make poor decisions and come to me to save them. You can make your fate if you’re not a moron.

[ - ] AntiPostmodernist [op] 0 points 8 monthsAug 26, 2023 20:52:34 ago (+2/-2)

You plan everything? With what? Your brain, and the rest of your body that factors into decision making.
All that plus some ghost in the shell you call a soul, is likely what you'd say constitutes you as an individual being.
Where did all that come from? Your genetics, and the way your upbringing affected their expression.
So, if I were to take you at the stage when you were still a zygote, and subject that to all the same environments that you were exposed to, would I not produce an exact copy of you right down to the most minute of details?
The answer is obviously yes. Furthermore, I could reliably predict every single ting you'd ever feel, think, say or do throughout your life.
You, and everything about you, including the choices you've made, all comes down to a simple equation: genes + accumulated environmental effects = you.
The question of free will is really whether our actions are able to be predicted, and given sufficient information about you, I'd agree that they are.
From there we come to the world as it exists today, where the science of controlling human behavior with perfect reliability at the individual level is being perfected.
Unfortunately it is with the intention of being used against us to drag the world into a totalitarian dystopia, where only a few of the wealthiest and most powerful people are the only ones who are above being manipulated in such ways, for they are the ones manipulating everyone else.

[ - ] Lost_In_The_Thinking 1 point 8 monthsAug 26, 2023 20:59:32 ago (+1/-0)

You know nothing more than anyone else, except your ego and arrogance refuse to let you acknowledge that. The short answer on free will is NOBODY KNOWS WHETHER WE HAVE FREE WILL OR NOT, and arguing pro or con won't add new information to that argument. It's an existential mystery that is unsolvable and which it were one way or another won't change a fucking thing.

[ - ] AntiPostmodernist [op] -1 points 8 monthsAug 26, 2023 21:04:57 ago (+0/-1)

We know, but the answer upsets you. Bet you can't even define what free will is. Just by saying it's a decisions made by you gives us a way to answer the question since we can break down what constitutes the entity that is "you".

[ - ] Lost_In_The_Thinking 1 point 8 monthsAug 26, 2023 21:15:41 ago (+1/-0)

It's not my argument. You define free will.

[ - ] AntiPostmodernist [op] 0 points 8 monthsAug 27, 2023 03:16:04 ago (+0/-0)*

I can't really define it either, I guess it means that people's behavior is non-deterministic and unpredictable? I reject that notion. Not only is our conduct predictable but also manipulable if you know what it takes to make someone do something you want them to do.

[ - ] Lost_In_The_Thinking 0 points 8 monthsAug 27, 2023 10:57:25 ago (+0/-0)

This is why I don't like you. You're an arrogant little know-it-all. And you'll respond to this by saying "I knew you'd say that".

[ - ] AntiPostmodernist [op] 0 points 8 monthsAug 27, 2023 11:05:43 ago (+0/-0)

I'm not arrogant, nothing you've said here is profound. I'm always questioning things, I never leave anything less than thoroughly analyzed.

[ - ] Hand_Of_Node 0 points 8 monthsAug 27, 2023 11:32:58 ago (+0/-0)

I guess it means that people's behavior is non-deterministic and unpredictable?

Only because we can't measure all the environmental factors that lead to specific behaviors.

[ - ] AntiPostmodernist [op] 1 point 8 monthsAug 27, 2023 12:17:26 ago (+1/-0)

Imperfect information, or imperfect ability to utilize it.

[ - ] Hand_Of_Node 0 points 8 monthsAug 27, 2023 12:42:04 ago (+0/-0)

Near absolute zero ability to detect and understand the relevant info.

At a gross level, humans are easily programmed and manipulated. Society and civilization wouldn't exist otherwise.

[ - ] deleted 0 points 8 monthsAug 27, 2023 01:17:40 ago (+0/-0)

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[ - ] Hand_Of_Node 0 points 8 monthsAug 27, 2023 11:34:06 ago (+0/-0)

Watch the original video. This 'Asmongold' is a low-wit.

[ - ] boekanier 0 points 8 monthsAug 27, 2023 02:57:58 ago (+0/-0)

That's right, free will on the level of personality doesn't exist

[ - ] deleted 0 points 8 monthsAug 27, 2023 01:15:48 ago (+0/-0)

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[ - ] AntiPostmodernist [op] 0 points 8 monthsAug 27, 2023 03:12:59 ago (+0/-0)

That's what people who do evil shit say. "It wasn't my fault! I didn't have a choice!" You always have a choice.

Well, it's a "yes and no" kind of thing. Likely they are capable of changing any pattern of behavior and it would be wise for them to be treated as if they were responsible for their past actions by everyone (especially themselves).

Whether that happens or not the actual truth of the matter is that free will doesn't exist, now, they are responsible for their actions, for it was their bodies that committed them, and they are likely capable of doing things differently, depending upon their natures and whatever circumstances they are in or would later find themselves encountering (like, if you lost your legs your dream of professionally dancing ballet are over).

Also, everyone is running on the same rules, nobody has free will, not the criminal and not the police officer who stops them. To be fair determinism doesn't hold any significance with regard to the fairness of crime and punishment. We don't have a justice concept to "give people what they deserve", if that were true we would either not care at all about actual guilt, since catharsis could come from punishing just about anybody, or we'd be far more draconic with our policing, punishing people more for their unpopularity than for any crime they committed.

We do things to rulebreakers because of the positive effect these actions have for our society as a whole, the most basic function of government is to enforce the laws by doing so. It's in the name, we couldn't have any civilization at all without people visiting consequences upon those who break our laws.

Remember the basic premise of determinism, that if you are the product of genetics and environmental influences, these consequences are just another experience that will change the way you would be from then on.

I'd advise against taking advice on how anyone should behave from a statement of how things are. It all may be operating deterministically, but it could only matter to those who someone with perfect knowledge that would allow them to accurately predict the future, for the rest of us the unknowns prevent the lack of free will to have any practical utility.

[ - ] deleted 0 points 8 monthsAug 27, 2023 10:04:38 ago (+0/-0)

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[ - ] AntiPostmodernist [op] 0 points 8 monthsAug 27, 2023 10:35:24 ago (+0/-0)

What I meant was the rules of nature, in that they all lack free will, because free will is an impossibility, everything is deterministic.

Think about LaPlace's demon, a hypothetical being that possesses perfect knowledge about the state of the entire universe at one specific moment in time, he also possesses perfect knowledge of the laws under which the universe operates. From each of these the demon could predict all the future states of the universe, as well as all states the universe was in throughout the past.

Same thing with anything that exists within the universe, if you know the genetics of a zygote, and you know how this genetic blueprint would respond to any series of environmental experiences, then you can predict every emotion, thought, word, or act of that organism throughout it's life.

Just as you can know that 3 will be the result of adding 1 to 2, everything that exists now is the product of what had come before, and it it could never have been any different. When we talk about things we cannot predict, we must admit that the only reason we cannot make an exact prediction is because of the information we are lacking, and the insufficient ability to apply our understanding of the processes that we would need to in order to reliably predict the future from that information.

lets go back to 1+2=3, for this you need to know the fist variable of 1, it being the initial state, and then the change being made to it, here being the addition of 2, you'd also need to know the process of adding 2 to 1. But having all that the outcome cannot be anything but 3.

[ - ] deleted 0 points 8 monthsAug 27, 2023 10:52:53 ago (+0/-0)

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[ - ] GottaGasEmAll 0 points 8 monthsAug 26, 2023 23:30:31 ago (+0/-0)

I can tell you for a fact that if free will exists that all people don't have it all the time. Example, a mental illness or development disorder can completely control your behavior and make you do things (obsessive compulsive disorder). Maybe only a healthy mind has free will. But also if free will doesn't exist why does the conscious mind exist. It would be completely pointless and serve no purpose if it wasn't involved and there was no free will. Life isn't like watching a character do things in first person, wouldn't that be what it's like to have no free will? You can clearly choose things unless you have OCD and then you lose your free will in the domain pertaining to the OCD.

[ - ] AntiPostmodernist [op] 0 points 8 monthsAug 27, 2023 00:54:02 ago (+0/-0)

I think you don't understand the argument against free will.

The argument is that your behavior is deterministic, thw result of your genetics and its interactions with all the environmental experiences it has ever encountered.

Of I were to take the zygote you used to be, and put it through all your life experiences, it would do everything you did, and turn out exactly like you in this moment.

It's the Laplace demon claim of determinism applied to people, that whatever you are at any moment is simply the invariable output that results from the input that was your biological nature plus your experiences.

Most people who argue for free will show a clear misunderstanding of what is being claimed by those who say it doesn't exist.