Wagner was just looking for an "out" before it was decimated.Obviously Ukraine was trying to exhaust Wagner/Russian Army before the Ukrainian counter-offensive because Bakhmut is of no strategic value to it. Wagner/Russians made a mistake and now they are low on ammo.
I dunno, was Russia still "winning" when THEY lost territory? This war is a fucking disaster for Russia. What everybody thought would be a cakewalk, and over a year later they are bogged down in trench warfare, with no end in sight.
It would have been a cakewalk had the US not spent money at a rate faster than Afghanistan and Iraq combined. Now, 200,000 Ukrainians are dead for no reason.
Russia was winning about 30 days after they entered Ukraine and had accomplished 90% of their stated goals.
You can call it a disaster for Russia if you want, but a 2% decline in GDP isn't the crippling event the US was hoping for. Add to it the bettering of relations with China, the BRICS, and many African countries, I don't see how much better it could have gone, short of the US staying the fuck out of it, which we should have done.
In the end, like I said in March of last year, the 2 regions will no longer be in Ukraine, they voted to be with Russia, and Russia will continue to support those regions from this point forward.
How much more money we give to defense contractors and Ukrainian politicians and how many dead people result from it, will be up to Ukraine.
Yes. Russia was winning when they lost a small amount of one area that occurred as a result of foreign interference with the skirmish. Lots of lives were thrown away for nothing over it.
And yes, Russia, by reclaiming Bakhmut, has taken the area back.
Russia has been "winning" for as long as they have occupied the border of the regions that they have dedicated to protect. How much money and lives are wasted trying to put an end to that protection is up to Ukraine, the US, and the EU.
I see. So they are "winning" when they lose territory. And they are "winning" when they don't take that territory back, but you can claim that took it back by taking just Bakhmut. Clearly you went to the Charlie Sheen school of "winning". Next you'll come down with AIDS.
Yes. You can still be winning if you lose ground. When you're up 21 points and your opponent scores a field goal, you're still winning.
And Russia has taken the land back. Viturally the entire border between Ukraine and the 2 newly liberated regions is Russian occupied and reinforced, and the last larger town in the 2 regions has fallen to the Russians.
By no metric could you suggest Ukraine us winning this war, and Russia, as a nation, is stronger today than at any point of this incursion, and is more firmly encamped in the regions that they liberated from Ukraine.
[ + ] Kozel
[ - ] Kozel 4 points 11 monthsMay 21, 2023 19:45:58 ago (+4/-0)
Interestingly enough the city fighting was done entirely by PMC Wagner.
[ + ] lord_nougat
[ - ] lord_nougat 4 points 11 monthsMay 21, 2023 19:43:22 ago (+4/-0)
[ + ] RepublicanNerd
[ - ] RepublicanNerd 1 point 11 monthsMay 21, 2023 23:04:39 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] paul_neri
[ - ] paul_neri 0 points 11 monthsMay 23, 2023 05:59:35 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] RepublicanNerd
[ - ] RepublicanNerd 0 points 11 monthsMay 23, 2023 17:35:31 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander 0 points 11 monthsMay 23, 2023 08:59:34 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Version6
[ - ] Version6 1 point 11 monthsMay 21, 2023 21:17:54 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] RepublicanNerd
[ - ] RepublicanNerd 2 points 11 monthsMay 21, 2023 23:04:08 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] chrimony
[ - ] chrimony 0 points 11 monthsMay 22, 2023 00:22:52 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] FreeinTX
[ - ] FreeinTX [op] 0 points 11 monthsMay 22, 2023 06:36:34 ago (+0/-0)
Russia was winning about 30 days after they entered Ukraine and had accomplished 90% of their stated goals.
You can call it a disaster for Russia if you want, but a 2% decline in GDP isn't the crippling event the US was hoping for. Add to it the bettering of relations with China, the BRICS, and many African countries, I don't see how much better it could have gone, short of the US staying the fuck out of it, which we should have done.
In the end, like I said in March of last year, the 2 regions will no longer be in Ukraine, they voted to be with Russia, and Russia will continue to support those regions from this point forward.
How much more money we give to defense contractors and Ukrainian politicians and how many dead people result from it, will be up to Ukraine.
"To the last Ukraine" - Zekensky and Graham.
[ + ] chrimony
[ - ] chrimony 0 points 11 monthsMay 22, 2023 08:24:28 ago (+0/-0)
Has Russia won that territory back?
[ + ] FreeinTX
[ - ] FreeinTX [op] 0 points 11 monthsMay 22, 2023 09:17:52 ago (+0/-0)
And yes, Russia, by reclaiming Bakhmut, has taken the area back.
Russia has been "winning" for as long as they have occupied the border of the regions that they have dedicated to protect. How much money and lives are wasted trying to put an end to that protection is up to Ukraine, the US, and the EU.
[ + ] chrimony
[ - ] chrimony 0 points 11 monthsMay 22, 2023 18:57:41 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] FreeinTX
[ - ] FreeinTX [op] 0 points 11 monthsMay 22, 2023 20:23:53 ago (+0/-0)
Yes. You can still be winning if you lose ground. When you're up 21 points and your opponent scores a field goal, you're still winning.
And Russia has taken the land back. Viturally the entire border between Ukraine and the 2 newly liberated regions is Russian occupied and reinforced, and the last larger town in the 2 regions has fallen to the Russians.
By no metric could you suggest Ukraine us winning this war, and Russia, as a nation, is stronger today than at any point of this incursion, and is more firmly encamped in the regions that they liberated from Ukraine.
You're a fucking idiot.
[ + ] chrimony
[ - ] chrimony 0 points 11 monthsMay 22, 2023 23:01:15 ago (+0/-0)
No, they haven't.
[ + ] FreeinTX
[ - ] FreeinTX [op] 0 points 11 monthsMay 23, 2023 06:42:28 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] chrimony
[ - ] chrimony 0 points 11 monthsMay 23, 2023 06:55:38 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] FreeinTX
[ - ] FreeinTX [op] 0 points 11 monthsMay 23, 2023 08:16:28 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] shitface9000
[ - ] shitface9000 0 points 11 monthsMay 21, 2023 20:43:53 ago (+0/-0)