So this isn't old at all, this is ongoing. Thanks for the link.
Having fled the scene has damned him. If you're ever involved in a self defense shooting, first, call 911 as soon as you can. The first person to report the incident is most often presumed to be the victim by law enforcement.
Say something like: “I had to use the weapon in self-defense,” or “I was forced to defend myself,” or “I was in fear for my life,” or “I was attacked.”
Do not give a detailed account of the incident. This is not the time.
I'm just looking out for anons. If you don't call 911 immediately after the shooting, law enforcement will assume intent and they will approach the investigation from that perspective. Calling 911 demonstrates concern for the lives of others. It implies you didn't set out to inflict harm, but did so simply to defend yourself. It communicates that you were the victim rather than the perpetrator. I take your point that White Europeans are at a disadvantage in the modern judicial system but should you fail to do this, it will be even worse. Like I said, I'm just hoping to save someone from life changing hardship by following a few incident best practices.
I get it. It's a crapshoot even if you do everything right. Fuck up though, make one misstep, and it's no longer a crapshoot. It's become a guarantee. They're going to make a public spectacle of you. And your life is over.
Depends on the laws of his locale. That was sufficient to satisfy stand your ground and several other self defense doctrines. Who is to say the nigger wasn't trying to bait him into a fight, intending to stab him?
You weak bitches are too scared to beat a nigger to death. You fags that go for your little gun within seconds of elevated anxiety are petrified that a lowly nigger might land a punch.
[ - ] Gowithit 1 point 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 09:20:11 ago (+1/-0)
Why touch one of you don't have to?
I get it.
There was a greasy bitch across the street trying to talk shit, this was after countless attempts at threating me and doing shitty little " drive bys"
Half of me wanted to grab a plastic bag to wrap my hand in because I didnt want to touch her.
Didn't matter she jumped in her car when I came out anyways.
My house is in front of a busy street and fun fact I didn't know ...it is not illegal nor considered harassment if a person parks their car by your mailbox or porch and sits there.
Haven't seen her since I got a gun though. I think someone told her.
Don't run your mouth to me pussy kike. I'll meet you anywhere you want and we can see what you're about. I've fucking told you that countless times now pussy.
Fucking pussy kike running your mouth on the Internet because you hate to see your pets get what they deserve.
Why be baited into a fight? Is that nog armed? Dispatch him and be done with it. Call 911, report the shoot and request an ambulance. The point is to neutralize the threat, not delight in murder. If the assailant can be saved, then so be it. If not, he fucked around and he found out.
LOL... I'm not questioning that it's made, I'm saying it's a fucking meme. Only a street nigger is going to pack a 40rd magazine. You can't carry it. You can't conceal it. You can't claim it's a self-defense weapon. What's the point? They make 50 round drums too... You wouldn't seriously carry one of those, would you? If you really feel you need to carry that many rounds, carry a loaded firearm, and a OWB dual mag carrier. So how about this, train more, rely on gimmicks less.
If you can't work with 17 rounds, you don't deserve to carry. You don't know how to handle that firearm. You don't know how to handle yourself. You don't know what you're doing. You are a danger to yourself and those around you. And you're too ignorant to know that. Simple as.
After I got out of the service, I was a Certified Firearms Instructor for two years before I moved to my current State. What I have told you is true.
But you don't seem to care about truth. You care about what's cool. You love buying gun things and talking about gun things. What you apparently don't love is developing your firearm skills or the comprehension necessary in order to effectively handle the weapons you carry.
That magazine is a problem. It is for niggers and range queens. No one who operates a firearm in the course of a profession uses that stupid shit because it's an operational liability. Moreover, it is a legal liability because if you're ever stupid enough to discharge that weapon in a self defense scenario, the DA will take one look and see an overzealous gun nut instead of a law abiding citizen.
The answer is self-apparent, but lets ask it anyway, for shits and grins. You don't have a CCW or a CHL, do you? If not, why not?
You're dishonest. You're manipulative. And when you carry, you're a danger to everyone around you. In other words, you're a nigger. And I'm done with you.
Everyone who carries needs to have murder insurance. People like to recommend USCCA but I don't trust them. They won't cover you if the shooting is not legal. Problem being, it's the that court determines if the shooting was legal during trial - not USCCA. USCCA will simply deny coverage if it thinks it won't win. CCWSafe is a different kind of service, but it's more comprehensive and in my view, far superior.
It's not just the criminal charges you need to worry about, invariably it's the civil charges when dindu #2 files wrongful death charges on behalf of dindu #1. CCWSafe has you there as well.
Shoot someone without coverage and your life is as good as over. A criminal defense in this atmosphere will cost millions in some cases and the civil liability will be even worse. Add to that the fact that you'll likely be in jail for a year or more if you can't afford bail.
Increase your OpSec. If they can't identify your visit history, and they can't access your password manager, they are at a disadvantage. I pay $500 a year for both my wife and I to be covered. I'm not taking the chance. You're not wrong about the impact of social media. But I am certain I would be in worse shape without it.
Dude is sitting in jail or out on bail awaiting trial for executing a nigger to protect an overpriced truck that he financed with jewish usury. Dumbass.
Ah man, I’ve been that guy, when I was much younger. Once jumped out of my truck, stopped, mid freeway, framing hammer in hand. Dude recoiled as if finna get a beating from a pissed of window installer. I don’t do those things anymore. But that’s how I know White Truck wins, every time. They also don’t get pulled over much at all.
Thankfully the law says otherwise almost everywhere. If a reasonable person would fear for their safety or well-being, that is sufficient grounds for self-defense almost everywhere. The purpose of the trial is to determine if that standard was met. "Some people" is a fucking meaningless metric to go by.
In NY, you’re obligated to find/make a reasonable retreat, if I’m not mistaken. You cannot use force exceeding that presented and you cannot use greater force unless you’re unable to get away.
You know what? I believe you. That State is so fucked that they call the perpetrators victims, refuse to charge violent repeat offenders and seek to disarm the those who go out of their way to obey the law. Why wouldn't they demand you react as a coward who must allow themselves to be harmed before they can act in a reasonable manner. Get the fuck out of that shithole State... It will only get worse.
Then perhaps Canadians should start giving a shit about, I don't know, anything. Canadians are the most passive population in the Northern Hemisphere. And that's including the do-nothing United States!
[ + ] NoRefunds
[ - ] NoRefunds 1 point 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 09:08:25 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Indoctrinated_USA
[ - ] Indoctrinated_USA 0 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 15:14:07 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] NoRefunds
[ - ] NoRefunds 1 point 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 21:20:09 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Indoctrinated_USA
[ - ] Indoctrinated_USA 1 point 2 yearsMay 1, 2023 00:35:16 ago (+1/-0)*
Thanks for the link.
Having fled the scene has damned him.
If you're ever involved in a self defense shooting, first, call 911 as soon as you can.
The first person to report the incident is most often presumed to be the victim by law enforcement.
Say something like:
“I had to use the weapon in self-defense,” or
“I was forced to defend myself,” or
“I was in fear for my life,” or
“I was attacked.”
Do not give a detailed account of the incident. This is not the time.
[ + ] NoRefunds
[ - ] NoRefunds 0 points 2.0 yearsMay 2, 2023 11:05:43 ago (+0/-0)
Maybe in America. But in ClownWorld, facts don't matter anymore.
[ + ] Indoctrinated_USA
[ - ] Indoctrinated_USA 0 points 2.0 yearsMay 2, 2023 12:21:04 ago (+0/-0)*
If you don't call 911 immediately after the shooting, law enforcement will assume intent and they will approach the investigation from that perspective.
Calling 911 demonstrates concern for the lives of others. It implies you didn't set out to inflict harm, but did so simply to defend yourself.
It communicates that you were the victim rather than the perpetrator.
I take your point that White Europeans are at a disadvantage in the modern judicial system but should you fail to do this, it will be even worse.
Like I said, I'm just hoping to save someone from life changing hardship by following a few incident best practices.
[ + ] NoRefunds
[ - ] NoRefunds 0 points 2.0 yearsMay 4, 2023 01:48:33 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Indoctrinated_USA
[ - ] Indoctrinated_USA 0 points 2.0 yearsMay 4, 2023 02:51:44 ago (+0/-0)
It's a crapshoot even if you do everything right.
Fuck up though, make one misstep, and it's no longer a crapshoot.
It's become a guarantee.
They're going to make a public spectacle of you.
And your life is over.
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander 1 point 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 07:49:14 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] TheBigGuyFromQueens
[ - ] TheBigGuyFromQueens 0 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 04:43:36 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Indoctrinated_USA
[ - ] Indoctrinated_USA 0 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 15:01:51 ago (+0/-0)
That was sufficient to satisfy stand your ground and several other self defense doctrines.
Who is to say the nigger wasn't trying to bait him into a fight, intending to stab him?
[ + ] zr855
[ - ] zr855 4 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 02:33:47 ago (+4/-0)
[ + ] con77
[ - ] con77 2 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 02:07:08 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] UncleDoug
[ - ] UncleDoug -6 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 01:30:22 ago (+0/-6)
[ + ] ItsOk2bArian
[ - ] ItsOk2bArian 6 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 01:49:34 ago (+6/-0)
[ + ] UncleDoug
[ - ] UncleDoug -3 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 01:54:21 ago (+0/-3)
[ + ] con77
[ - ] con77 4 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 02:03:13 ago (+4/-0)
[ + ] UncleDoug
[ - ] UncleDoug -7 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 02:07:31 ago (+0/-7)
Is everyone here scared of niggers?
[ + ] Indoctrinated_USA
[ - ] Indoctrinated_USA 5 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 04:03:34 ago (+5/-0)
It means you harm.
Simple as.
[ + ] Gowithit
[ - ] Gowithit 1 point 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 09:20:11 ago (+1/-0)
I get it.
There was a greasy bitch across the street trying to talk shit, this was after countless attempts at threating me and doing shitty little " drive bys"
Half of me wanted to grab a plastic bag to wrap my hand in because I didnt want to touch her.
Didn't matter she jumped in her car when I came out anyways.
My house is in front of a busy street and fun fact I didn't know ...it is not illegal nor considered harassment if a person parks their car by your mailbox or porch and sits there.
Haven't seen her since I got a gun though. I think someone told her.
[ + ] zr855
[ - ] zr855 3 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 02:42:16 ago (+3/-0)
[ + ] UncleDoug
[ - ] UncleDoug -2 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 02:43:39 ago (+0/-2)
Have you ever had a real fight in your life, or do you soft faggots all pull out knives and guns everytime someone chimps out?
[ + ] zr855
[ - ] zr855 3 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 02:47:43 ago (+3/-0)
Fucking pussy kike running your mouth on the Internet because you hate to see your pets get what they deserve.
[ + ] UncleDoug
[ - ] UncleDoug -2 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 03:20:23 ago (+0/-2)
Good to know.
[ + ] zr855
[ - ] zr855 2 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 03:22:05 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] UncleDoug
[ - ] UncleDoug -2 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 03:23:02 ago (+1/-3)
Fucking cowards the lot of you. Not even man enough to defend your property with fists.
[ + ] zr855
[ - ] zr855 2 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 03:24:16 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] zr855
[ - ] zr855 2 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 03:22:52 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] UncleDoug
[ - ] UncleDoug -3 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 04:47:03 ago (+0/-3)
You are 100% a scared faggot larping as a man online.
[ + ] Indoctrinated_USA
[ - ] Indoctrinated_USA 1 point 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 04:01:41 ago (+1/-0)
Is that nog armed?
Dispatch him and be done with it.
Call 911, report the shoot and request an ambulance.
The point is to neutralize the threat, not delight in murder.
If the assailant can be saved, then so be it.
If not, he fucked around and he found out.
[ + ] AngryWhiteKeyboardWarrior
[ - ] AngryWhiteKeyboardWarrior 0 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 06:58:51 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] UncleDoug
[ - ] UncleDoug -2 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 07:02:30 ago (+0/-2)
Another weak fag larping as a man, pretending he murders nigs because he's too scared to get into a real fist fight.
[ + ] Jinglebanger
[ - ] Jinglebanger 4 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 01:04:00 ago (+4/-0)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 2 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 00:56:45 ago (+3/-1)
[ + ] Indoctrinated_USA
[ - ] Indoctrinated_USA 0 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 15:04:02 ago (+0/-0)
That's a meme...
Train more.
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 2 yearsMay 1, 2023 00:17:05 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Indoctrinated_USA
[ - ] Indoctrinated_USA 0 points 2 yearsMay 1, 2023 00:27:36 ago (+0/-0)*
I'm not questioning that it's made, I'm saying it's a fucking meme.
Only a street nigger is going to pack a 40rd magazine.
You can't carry it.
You can't conceal it.
You can't claim it's a self-defense weapon.
What's the point?
They make 50 round drums too... You wouldn't seriously carry one of those, would you?
If you really feel you need to carry that many rounds, carry a loaded firearm, and a OWB dual mag carrier.
So how about this, train more, rely on gimmicks less.
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 2 yearsMay 1, 2023 08:37:23 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 2 yearsMay 1, 2023 08:41:00 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Indoctrinated_USA
[ - ] Indoctrinated_USA 0 points 2 yearsMay 1, 2023 14:15:48 ago (+0/-0)*
You don't know how to handle that firearm.
You don't know how to handle yourself.
You don't know what you're doing.
You are a danger to yourself and those around you.
And you're too ignorant to know that.
Simple as.
Get training.
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 2 yearsMay 1, 2023 14:26:54 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Indoctrinated_USA
[ - ] Indoctrinated_USA 0 points 2 yearsMay 1, 2023 14:44:50 ago (+0/-0)*
What I have told you is true.
But you don't seem to care about truth.
You care about what's cool.
You love buying gun things and talking about gun things.
What you apparently don't love is developing your firearm skills or the comprehension necessary in order to effectively handle the weapons you carry.
That magazine is a problem.
It is for niggers and range queens.
No one who operates a firearm in the course of a profession uses that stupid shit because it's an operational liability.
Moreover, it is a legal liability because if you're ever stupid enough to discharge that weapon in a self defense scenario, the DA will take one look and see an overzealous gun nut instead of a law abiding citizen.
The answer is self-apparent, but lets ask it anyway, for shits and grins.
You don't have a CCW or a CHL, do you?
If not, why not?
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 2 yearsMay 1, 2023 15:00:59 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Indoctrinated_USA
[ - ] Indoctrinated_USA 0 points 2 yearsMay 1, 2023 15:11:58 ago (+0/-0)
You're manipulative.
And when you carry, you're a danger to everyone around you.
In other words, you're a nigger.
And I'm done with you.
[ + ] xmasskull
[ - ] xmasskull 4 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 00:54:46 ago (+4/-0)
Good clean shoot.
[ + ] Indoctrinated_USA
[ - ] Indoctrinated_USA 11 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 00:23:47 ago (+11/-0)
Everyone who carries needs to have murder insurance.
People like to recommend USCCA but I don't trust them.
They won't cover you if the shooting is not legal.
Problem being, it's the that court determines if the shooting was legal during trial - not USCCA.
USCCA will simply deny coverage if it thinks it won't win.
CCWSafe is a different kind of service, but it's more comprehensive and in my view, far superior.
It's not just the criminal charges you need to worry about, invariably it's the civil charges when dindu #2 files wrongful death charges on behalf of dindu #1. CCWSafe has you there as well.
Shoot someone without coverage and your life is as good as over. A criminal defense in this atmosphere will cost millions in some cases and the civil liability will be even worse. Add to that the fact that you'll likely be in jail for a year or more if you can't afford bail.
Food for thought.
[ + ] MichaelStewart
[ - ] MichaelStewart 3 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 01:21:55 ago (+3/-0)
[ + ] 3Whuurs
[ - ] 3Whuurs 2 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 02:03:52 ago (+2/-0)
But there’s no way it’s worth a dollar if it relies on a judge to say the nog shouldn’t be allowed to kill you.
[ + ] zr855
[ - ] zr855 1 point 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 02:39:58 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander 1 point 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 07:52:46 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Indoctrinated_USA
[ - ] Indoctrinated_USA 0 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 14:52:13 ago (+0/-0)
Read their fine print.
See what grounds they have to deny service.
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 1 point 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 08:31:39 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 11:34:56 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Indoctrinated_USA
[ - ] Indoctrinated_USA 0 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 14:58:40 ago (+0/-0)
If they can't identify your visit history, and they can't access your password manager, they are at a disadvantage.
I pay $500 a year for both my wife and I to be covered.
I'm not taking the chance.
You're not wrong about the impact of social media.
But I am certain I would be in worse shape without it.
[ + ] Trope
[ - ] Trope -1 points 2 yearsApr 29, 2023 23:40:11 ago (+0/-1)
[ + ] Spaceman84
[ - ] Spaceman84 1 point 2 yearsApr 29, 2023 23:21:16 ago (+4/-3)
[ + ] 3Whuurs
[ - ] 3Whuurs 1 point 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 01:52:44 ago (+2/-1)
[ + ] Indoctrinated_USA
[ - ] Indoctrinated_USA 0 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 14:39:46 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 15:05:04 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] yesiknow
[ - ] yesiknow 3 points 2 yearsApr 29, 2023 23:18:28 ago (+3/-0)
[ + ] Kozel
[ - ] Kozel 4 points 2 yearsApr 29, 2023 22:58:31 ago (+5/-1)
[ + ] Trope
[ - ] Trope 2 points 2 yearsApr 29, 2023 23:40:31 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] Rowdybme
[ - ] Rowdybme 0 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 03:26:58 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] TheOriginal1Icemonkey
[ - ] TheOriginal1Icemonkey 14 points 2 yearsApr 29, 2023 22:56:39 ago (+14/-0)
[ + ] BulletStopper
[ - ] BulletStopper 10 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 05:30:42 ago (+10/-0)
Like saying, "Hey everybody, I stepped on a cockroach in my kitchen last night."
Hitler was right. \o
(And no, I don't live in Florida, so fuck you Ron.)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 1 point 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 09:49:37 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 15:12:14 ago (+1/-1)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 22:08:11 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] dassar
[ - ] dassar 4 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 02:31:04 ago (+4/-0)
[ + ] 2Drunk
[ - ] 2Drunk 11 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 05:30:45 ago (+11/-0)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 2 points 2 yearsApr 29, 2023 22:52:10 ago (+5/-3)*
[ + ] TheOriginal1Icemonkey
[ - ] TheOriginal1Icemonkey 6 points 2 yearsApr 29, 2023 23:21:59 ago (+7/-1)
[ + ] zr855
[ - ] zr855 3 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 02:36:22 ago (+3/-0)
[ + ] I_am_baal
[ - ] I_am_baal 1 point 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 08:53:29 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 1 point 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 11:39:46 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] TheOriginal1Icemonkey
[ - ] TheOriginal1Icemonkey 0 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 21:50:05 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] con77
[ - ] con77 0 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 02:01:51 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] TheOriginal1Icemonkey
[ - ] TheOriginal1Icemonkey 0 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 10:03:40 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] PeckerwoodPerry
[ - ] PeckerwoodPerry 0 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 13:15:50 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 22:11:46 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] ParnellsUprising
[ - ] ParnellsUprising 3 points 2 yearsApr 29, 2023 22:36:19 ago (+3/-0)
[ + ] bonghits4jeebus
[ - ] bonghits4jeebus 10 points 2 yearsApr 29, 2023 22:58:27 ago (+10/-0)
[ + ] Sunman_Omega
[ - ] Sunman_Omega 9 points 2 yearsApr 29, 2023 23:08:49 ago (+9/-0)
[ + ] bonghits4jeebus
[ - ] bonghits4jeebus 6 points 2 yearsApr 29, 2023 23:09:57 ago (+8/-2)
[ + ] Indoctrinated_USA
[ - ] Indoctrinated_USA 5 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 00:27:25 ago (+5/-0)
If a reasonable person would fear for their safety or well-being, that is sufficient grounds for self-defense almost everywhere.
The purpose of the trial is to determine if that standard was met.
"Some people" is a fucking meaningless metric to go by.
[ + ] TheBigGuyFromQueens
[ - ] TheBigGuyFromQueens 1 point 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 04:51:02 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Indoctrinated_USA
[ - ] Indoctrinated_USA 2 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 05:07:23 ago (+2/-0)*
That State is so fucked that they call the perpetrators victims, refuse to charge violent repeat offenders and seek to disarm the those who go out of their way to obey the law.
Why wouldn't they demand you react as a coward who must allow themselves to be harmed before they can act in a reasonable manner.
Get the fuck out of that shithole State... It will only get worse.
[ + ] VitaminSieg
[ - ] VitaminSieg -1 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 12:17:13 ago (+0/-1)
[ + ] Indoctrinated_USA
[ - ] Indoctrinated_USA 0 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 14:37:46 ago (+0/-0)
Canadians are the most passive population in the Northern Hemisphere.
And that's including the do-nothing United States!
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 2 yearsApr 30, 2023 22:12:52 ago (+0/-0)