The Talmud describes all the ceremonies and rituals.
The new testament is for people below a certain IQ. If you ever gain self awareness and an IQ above room temperature you will need much much more than than the jew testament provides.
Ya gotta stretch out first by slamming your head into the wall repeatedly while drinking hard liquor and doing hard drugs.... This results in the best blindest faith.
Just think of this. We know what the biggest detrimental to a society are.
It's pretty damn simple to see. Not being a homogeneous one race society being a massive problem. Jess a massive problem. Homosexuality and feminism a massive problem.
The new testament should have been about 80 percent dealing with these problems
This is one of the biggest flaws in the protestant theology of Sola Scriptura (i.e. bible alone). In order to truly understand scripture, you must also have Tradition. The Catholic Church may have many problems with leadership and scandals, but absolutely provides the best framework for Tradition that exists.
different traditions can each be right for different people.
I appreciate the well thought out response. My problem with what you have written is that it seems to fall square in the realm of relativism. There is only one truth. Either you can have female priests, or not. You have the real presence, or not. Gay ministers, or not. Etc. Following your logic to the nth degree here, no one can say anything is wrong, and we would have to accept everything.
I agree that RCC theology can get quite complex, but theology is just our understanding of God and His creation, and God isn't some simpleton. I tell my kids, God is the ultimate scientist, the ultimate mathematician. You can't boil God down to some simple platitudes and easy sayings.
this is a lot to unpack, and I am no theologian, nor even the least bit smart. what i can say is this, we should be gauging what is right or wrong based on our understanding of God. we must have a correctly formed conscience.
in any large organization, there will inevitably be some minority who deviate from the norm. maybe this is intentional, or due to ignorance or misunderstanding. it is unfortunate now that there are people inside and outside the RCC that are intentionally muddying the waters and leading many down a wrong path. heretical teachings have always been around, and the RCC has dealt with many of them through councils to define and articulate the dogma in question. maybe this is why many people outside the RCC feel dogma or doctrine has "changed" over the decades/centuries.
you quote Romans 14. i don't think this refers to relativism. i believe this is Paul correcting some individuals thinking that not following Mosaic law (e.g. some foods are unclean) is sin. he talks about eating meat vs. not eating meat. neither of those are sinful acts, but a personal choice, and it seems some of the faithful were passing judgment on others where no judgement was warranted. if we do all (non-sinful) things in faith, then there is no issue with what each chooses to do. i don't think this is relativism, but mere freedom of choosing one good vs. choosing some other good.
relativism is making one-self God. the self gets to choose what is right and wrong, rather than God. the extreme of this is the gay and transgender movement. i think you and i are discussing the less extreme variety of differentiation between RCC and various protestant theologies. each branch or denomination of protestantism began with some individual creating their own tradition - their own body of "acceptable" interpretation of scripture. Luther had some valid arguments with what was happening in the RCC at the time, but due to his pride decided to divide and destroy rather than work to correct the problems.
there is a common core of tradition between the groups
absolutely, and there have been many attempts to unite the RCC and the Orthodoxies over the centuries. most, sadly, have been thwarted by political reasons/actors rather than by theological differences. worthy of note, i often use the similarities between the orthodoxies and the RCC as a proof that the protestants are wrong about the early church not being Catholic - but i think that is another topic for another day.
all of this is pretty deep and wide-ranging, and online comments may not be the best way to express the deepness of the truths we are discussing. or maybe i am just too much of a simpleton! anyway, i would highly suggest getting a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. it is a fantastic book that really dives deep into the dogmas/doctrines, but not in an overly complex way. it is very readable.
anyway, i must get back to work. take care and God bless.
There are hundreds of congregations that were created based off these major confusions, which have yet to be answered.
The truth is those questions have been answered. People didn't like the answers so they chose to believe what they wanted to believe.
About your first paragraph. The case can be made, and has been, that sex is how people get married. "The two become one." And, 1 Corinthians 6 (KJV) ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ ¹⁵ Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. ¹⁶ What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
About your second paragraph. You may be confusing the Word of God with the wishes of people. Sin doesn't change. God has declared what is sin. That is never going to change. But people love their sin and will do and believe anything in order to keep sinning with a "clear conscious". It's like the string that the stupid jews have around jew york. They think they are fooling God. None of their antics, or any one else's, will fool God. Babies are born pure and without sin. Which sin is your worst sin? The first one. That is the one that separates you from God. I remember my first sin. While compared to some of my other sins it wasn't as "evil", it was even kind of tame, but it was the most horrible one! Because it was The one that separated me from my God!
Quoting Paul is quoting Jewish subversive fabrication from one of the most famous serial killers and wanton torturers of all time. Saul of Tarsus the mass butcher became Paul the false apostle, on a pharisee mission to subvert and stamp out the Nazarenes and replace their faith with a faith no jew would ever follow... One that says any debauchery can be cured forever with a simple incantation... It cures all...
This flies in the face of all Jewish teaching both overt and covert and that was EXACTLY THE PLAN. They had to create a clear division in faiths so that Jewish Nazarenes would not get power over the pharisee hierarchy.
Your entire fantasy is a tool, just like the tools that follow it blindly and ignorantly, most not even knowing who Saul is.
Why do you think marriage needs more steps or ritual? It is simply explained as a lifelong union between a man and woman. Often in the OT taking a wife is as simple as fucking her. What ceremonial function would better represent an absolute union than sex?
Words have meaning based on their component parts.
The bible isn't missing detail, your lack of language skills is the issue.
Sin simply means "against God". in the same way you wouldn't mistreat your friend, if you knew God as you know your friends you wouldn't commit grievances against Him.
No, it most certainly is not as simple as a poke and a smoke. Adulterers are not considered married to their extra-marital lover. Screwing a whore does not equate to holy matrimony. Reducing marriage to just sex is a fairly primitive and animalistic notion. Coincidentally this is why so many marriages fail today, because instead of God at the center, there is only good feelings and lust.
You're putting what I'm saying into a modern context, in the ancient world a strange man wouldn't be alone with anyone's daughter. For a man to fuck a woman at most points in history he'd have to kidnap her or develop a mutual trust between himself and her household, that one night in bed likely had months of social lead-up making clear his intentions and then the man was expected to take responsibility as he took her to wife already by taking her to bed, they could have the social ceremony as dictated by cultural mores in the aftermath but in the ancient world it was universal, you break it(hymen) you buy it(marriage). I'm not denying marriage ceremonies prior to fucking but most cultures seem to have been flexible(in the loosest possible sense) about the order of events but not the commitment entailed.
you do know prostitution is considered "the world's oldest profession"? what you are saying simply isn't true historically. in biblical times, it was very common for priestesses to be ritual prostitutes. even the bible makes reference to prostitution.
I'm not saying whores qualify, though that exception is a bit sad because most whores of the ancient world were products of men not being forced to take responsibility when they took a girls virginity.
[ + ] SkullFuckerSupreme
[ - ] SkullFuckerSupreme -7 points 2.3 yearsFeb 13, 2023 11:27:54 ago (+0/-7)
The new testament is for people below a certain IQ.
If you ever gain self awareness and an IQ above room temperature you will need much much more than than the jew testament provides.
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 2 points 2.3 yearsFeb 13, 2023 14:31:43 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] Spaceman84
[ - ] Spaceman84 -5 points 2.3 yearsFeb 13, 2023 12:02:01 ago (+0/-5)
[ + ] SkullFuckerSupreme
[ - ] SkullFuckerSupreme -1 points 2.3 yearsFeb 13, 2023 13:22:59 ago (+0/-1)
[ + ] ReincarnatedGoat
[ - ] ReincarnatedGoat 0 points 2.3 yearsFeb 13, 2023 18:48:10 ago (+0/-0)
As far as marriage, all marriages have a marriage and divorse date all in one.
[ + ] lord_nougat
[ - ] lord_nougat 1 point 2.3 yearsFeb 13, 2023 12:50:17 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] SkullFuckerSupreme
[ - ] SkullFuckerSupreme 1 point 2.3 yearsFeb 13, 2023 13:27:00 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Doglegwarrior
[ - ] Doglegwarrior 1 point 2.3 yearsFeb 13, 2023 15:25:47 ago (+1/-0)
It's pretty damn simple to see. Not being a homogeneous one race society being a massive problem. Jess a massive problem. Homosexuality and feminism a massive problem.
The new testament should have been about 80 percent dealing with these problems
[ + ] AugustineOfHippo2
[ - ] AugustineOfHippo2 2 points 2.3 yearsFeb 13, 2023 11:27:50 ago (+3/-1)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 1 point 2.3 yearsFeb 13, 2023 16:29:35 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] AugustineOfHippo2
[ - ] AugustineOfHippo2 1 point 2.3 yearsFeb 13, 2023 17:03:56 ago (+1/-0)
I appreciate the well thought out response. My problem with what you have written is that it seems to fall square in the realm of relativism. There is only one truth. Either you can have female priests, or not. You have the real presence, or not. Gay ministers, or not. Etc.
Following your logic to the nth degree here, no one can say anything is wrong, and we would have to accept everything.
I agree that RCC theology can get quite complex, but theology is just our understanding of God and His creation, and God isn't some simpleton. I tell my kids, God is the ultimate scientist, the ultimate mathematician. You can't boil God down to some simple platitudes and easy sayings.
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 2.3 yearsFeb 13, 2023 22:15:25 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] AugustineOfHippo2
[ - ] AugustineOfHippo2 1 point 2.3 yearsFeb 14, 2023 11:20:51 ago (+1/-0)
what i can say is this, we should be gauging what is right or wrong based on our understanding of God. we must have a correctly formed conscience.
in any large organization, there will inevitably be some minority who deviate from the norm. maybe this is intentional, or due to ignorance or misunderstanding. it is unfortunate now that there are people inside and outside the RCC that are intentionally muddying the waters and leading many down a wrong path. heretical teachings have always been around, and the RCC has dealt with many of them through councils to define and articulate the dogma in question. maybe this is why many people outside the RCC feel dogma or doctrine has "changed" over the decades/centuries.
you quote Romans 14. i don't think this refers to relativism. i believe this is Paul correcting some individuals thinking that not following Mosaic law (e.g. some foods are unclean) is sin. he talks about eating meat vs. not eating meat. neither of those are sinful acts, but a personal choice, and it seems some of the faithful were passing judgment on others where no judgement was warranted. if we do all (non-sinful) things in faith, then there is no issue with what each chooses to do. i don't think this is relativism, but mere freedom of choosing one good vs. choosing some other good.
relativism is making one-self God. the self gets to choose what is right and wrong, rather than God. the extreme of this is the gay and transgender movement. i think you and i are discussing the less extreme variety of differentiation between RCC and various protestant theologies. each branch or denomination of protestantism began with some individual creating their own tradition - their own body of "acceptable" interpretation of scripture. Luther had some valid arguments with what was happening in the RCC at the time, but due to his pride decided to divide and destroy rather than work to correct the problems.
absolutely, and there have been many attempts to unite the RCC and the Orthodoxies over the centuries. most, sadly, have been thwarted by political reasons/actors rather than by theological differences. worthy of note, i often use the similarities between the orthodoxies and the RCC as a proof that the protestants are wrong about the early church not being Catholic - but i think that is another topic for another day.
all of this is pretty deep and wide-ranging, and online comments may not be the best way to express the deepness of the truths we are discussing. or maybe i am just too much of a simpleton! anyway, i would highly suggest getting a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. it is a fantastic book that really dives deep into the dogmas/doctrines, but not in an overly complex way. it is very readable.
anyway, i must get back to work.
take care and God bless.
[ + ] SkullFuckerSupreme
[ - ] SkullFuckerSupreme -3 points 2.3 yearsFeb 13, 2023 11:28:59 ago (+1/-4)
[ + ] Peleg
[ - ] Peleg 2 points 2.3 yearsFeb 13, 2023 11:39:30 ago (+2/-0)
The truth is those questions have been answered. People didn't like the answers so they chose to believe what they wanted to believe.
About your first paragraph.
The case can be made, and has been, that sex is how people get married. "The two become one." And, 1 Corinthians 6 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹⁵ Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
¹⁶ What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
About your second paragraph.
You may be confusing the Word of God with the wishes of people.
Sin doesn't change. God has declared what is sin. That is never going to change.
But people love their sin and will do and believe anything in order to keep sinning with a "clear conscious". It's like the string that the stupid jews have around jew york. They think they are fooling God.
None of their antics, or any one else's, will fool God.
Babies are born pure and without sin.
Which sin is your worst sin?
The first one. That is the one that separates you from God.
I remember my first sin. While compared to some of my other sins it wasn't as "evil", it was even kind of tame, but it was the most horrible one! Because it was The one that separated me from my God!
[ + ] Doglegwarrior
[ - ] Doglegwarrior 0 points 2.3 yearsFeb 13, 2023 15:30:19 ago (+0/-0)
I know this is real i in a relationship with one and there is something missing in these people just wonder what the Bible would say?
[ + ] SkullFuckerSupreme
[ - ] SkullFuckerSupreme -1 points 2.3 yearsFeb 13, 2023 13:22:03 ago (+0/-1)
This flies in the face of all Jewish teaching both overt and covert and that was EXACTLY THE PLAN. They had to create a clear division in faiths so that Jewish Nazarenes would not get power over the pharisee hierarchy.
Your entire fantasy is a tool, just like the tools that follow it blindly and ignorantly, most not even knowing who Saul is.
[ + ] _Obrez
[ - ] _Obrez 5 points 2.3 yearsFeb 13, 2023 11:51:18 ago (+5/-0)
Words have meaning based on their component parts.
The bible isn't missing detail, your lack of language skills is the issue.
Sin simply means "against God". in the same way you wouldn't mistreat your friend, if you knew God as you know your friends you wouldn't commit grievances against Him.
[ + ] AugustineOfHippo2
[ - ] AugustineOfHippo2 0 points 2.3 yearsFeb 13, 2023 12:13:19 ago (+1/-1)
Reducing marriage to just sex is a fairly primitive and animalistic notion. Coincidentally this is why so many marriages fail today, because instead of God at the center, there is only good feelings and lust.
[ + ] _Obrez
[ - ] _Obrez 0 points 2.3 yearsFeb 15, 2023 16:26:59 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] AugustineOfHippo2
[ - ] AugustineOfHippo2 0 points 2.3 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:11:57 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] _Obrez
[ - ] _Obrez 0 points 2.3 yearsFeb 17, 2023 12:13:33 ago (+0/-0)