During the blowdown phase, as the exhaust valves open, the gas entering the exhaust ports is just about supersonic, especially at low lift angles. This supersonic flow is susceptible to expansion fans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prandtl%E2%80%93Meyer_expansion_fanThis is why radiused exhaust valve seats and tulip valves with a rounded valve edge on the CC side helps flow. Expansion fans accelerate flow and are isentropic, that means without generating entropy in the way that a normal or oblique shockwave does. Not only does this simplify the calculations, but the expansion fans have very little losses. Typically a shockwave acts as a barrier for air, and causes non-reversible losses. An expansion fan on the other hand eliminates MOST, not ALL losses up to the accelerated velocity of ~Mach 1.4.
The angle needed to achieve M1.4 via expansion fans is ~9-10 degree steps. The air that flows through the seat and the valve face is flowing through a series of angles, if these angles can be kept to 9-10 degrees, one can dramatically lower losses on exhaust blowdown.
This is a lot harder to achieve on the intake valve(s) because the flow there never goes above Mach .55 maybe locally at low lifts with high VE it could get close to M=.6-.7 or the trans-sonic regime. Although for port injection, one also has to consider wet flow(ie fuel) and as a result limits the angles that can be used depending on the engine application. So while a full radius job on the intake will flow more CFM, it won't necessarily make more power, because smooth angles not only allow air to stick, but also any other fluid, such as fuel.
https://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s92/chippievw/F1technical/F1technicalintakeport002_zps9d11215f.jpg![]()
Here you can see a cross section on the valve seats of a Cosworth V-10 F1 engine. Exhaust on the right, intake on the left. You can see the curve on the exhaust port is more pronounced compared to the relatively straight intake port, which only has a slight curve near the valve seat. This turn is necessary to guide airflow across the seat and into the combustion chamber, as well as to allow fuel and some air to separate from the wall to avoid pooling. Of course, at 18,000rpm the air is already mostly turbulent and will mix the crap out of the fuel. However at part throttle and lower rpm, the flow can be so laminar that fuel sticks to the walls and falls out of suspension.
For this reason engines that operate at lower RPMs and are undervalved(ie not enough valve for the combustion chamber), will benefit from 5 discreet angles on the intake side, particularly if the engine is carbureted.
https://www.speednik.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2013/05/Valves_2.jpg![]()
While such a setup will flow a bit less than a full radiused valve seat, they typically work better in terms of combustion stability, and can help to limit flow reversion. On the exhaust seats, there is usually no fuel being burned(unless you're doing anti-lag), and you want the flow to leave the CC as fast as possible, doing full radius helps. You don't have much reversion on the exhaust seats, because the exhaust manifold is at a much lower pressure, and the overlap helps maintain the pressure gradient towards the exhaust.
With direct injection, since you don't have to worry about fuel in the intake, the rules change somewhat, and what is beneficial for the exhaust side, is also beneficial for the intake side as fuel is injected directly into the CC. When boost is introduced the similarities and ability to exploit expansion fans starts to work on the intake side because air density has a small but measurable effect on flow velocity. This can leave the air smack dab in the transonic region especially at low lift levels. Since valves open and close, the valves are at low lifts twice, and high lift once.
[ + ] HeyJames
[ - ] HeyJames 2 points 2.2 yearsJan 29, 2023 20:50:51 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] RedBarchetta
[ - ] RedBarchetta 1 point 2.2 yearsJan 29, 2023 22:17:30 ago (+1/-0)
So before you start labeling "Trust Fund babies" also understand the Heavy duty engines are overbuilt and wasteful for reliability and not performance. Given reliability is the goal, any moron can overbuild something to last as long as you need.
Understand, I am a fan of diesels everything has a time and place. Sadly our engines are being chased away like nuclear energy which is also efficient but misunderstood. You might find it interesting that many Diesels have won in very difficult situations. https://www.hotcars.com/diesel-powered-cars-won-motorsports/#audi-r10-tdi
[ + ] HeyJames
[ - ] HeyJames 0 points 2.2 yearsJan 29, 2023 23:02:14 ago (+0/-0)
So that's why a few manufacturers like CAT and Komatsu dominate the HD market while people who make atrocious crap like Renault can get into f1? Yeah get real lol
[ + ] usedoilanalysis
[ - ] usedoilanalysis [op] 0 points 2.2 yearsJan 30, 2023 05:13:08 ago (+0/-0)
Did you know that Honda was casting its F1 blocks up until 2019? It wasn't until 2020 that they started making billet blocks. They used 3d printed sand molds, and a process that gave them very good repeatable tolerances. If you know anything about castings, you know that castings tend to have quite a bit of variance, no 2 cast parts are exactly the same. Going from cast to billet took them to another level, along with their Kunimitsu plating.
[ + ] usedoilanalysis
[ - ] usedoilanalysis [op] -1 points 2.2 yearsJan 29, 2023 22:22:32 ago (+0/-1)
[ + ] HeyJames
[ - ] HeyJames 1 point 2.2 yearsJan 29, 2023 22:59:30 ago (+2/-1)
[ + ] usedoilanalysis
[ - ] usedoilanalysis [op] 0 points 2.2 yearsJan 30, 2023 05:05:34 ago (+0/-0)
Diesel engines are churning at what 5,000 RPM tops? 2-3k RPM for continuous running? The piston speeds are lower, the stresses on the crank, rods, pistons is much lower.
[ + ] HeyJames
[ - ] HeyJames -1 points 2.2 yearsJan 30, 2023 08:35:14 ago (+0/-1)
Trust fund racing engines can't be compared to stuff that has to work for a living and be profitable to run for literally decades. As I said you can have absolute trash automakers like Renault get into f1 and do decent. They could never make a competitive engine in the industrial market.
[ + ] usedoilanalysis
[ - ] usedoilanalysis [op] 0 points 2.2 yearsJan 30, 2023 09:01:59 ago (+0/-0)
"stuff that has to work for a living" is easy to do by comparison, you over fuel, cap power, have loose tolerances by comparison and weight is almost a non issue.
A U.S. big rig truck engine makes ~500-550hp with 14+ liters of displacement, meanwhile these F1 engines make twice the power with 1/9th the displacement. Sure the truck engine can go 400k miles between rebuilds, but it's also far less stressed.
Like yeah, a Wartsila is more powerful and efficient, but you're not putting that in a car, period.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/xAaD2aM3uPA
Also, Renault makes truck engines that "work for a living and be profitable to run for literally decades".
https://www.renault-trucks.com/en/long-haul-range
[ + ] HeyJames
[ - ] HeyJames 0 points 2.2 yearsJan 30, 2023 09:05:57 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] usedoilanalysis
[ - ] usedoilanalysis [op] 0 points 2.2 yearsJan 30, 2023 09:18:16 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] usedoilanalysis
[ - ] usedoilanalysis [op] 0 points 2.2 yearsJan 30, 2023 09:20:24 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] usedoilanalysis
[ - ] usedoilanalysis [op] 0 points 2.2 yearsJan 30, 2023 09:31:14 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] HeyJames
[ - ] HeyJames 0 points 2.2 yearsJan 30, 2023 12:11:37 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] usedoilanalysis
[ - ] usedoilanalysis [op] 0 points 2.2 yearsJan 30, 2023 12:22:08 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] bonghits4jeebus
[ - ] bonghits4jeebus 0 points 2.2 yearsJan 29, 2023 23:52:15 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] RepublicanNerd
[ - ] RepublicanNerd 1 point 2.2 yearsJan 30, 2023 00:28:20 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] bonghits4jeebus
[ - ] bonghits4jeebus 0 points 2.2 yearsJan 30, 2023 18:19:57 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] usedoilanalysis
[ - ] usedoilanalysis [op] 0 points 2.2 yearsJan 30, 2023 04:59:43 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Spaceman84
[ - ] Spaceman84 0 points 2.2 yearsJan 29, 2023 21:26:39 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] RedBarchetta
[ - ] RedBarchetta 2 points 2.2 yearsJan 29, 2023 22:19:11 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] HeyJames
[ - ] HeyJames 1 point 2.2 yearsJan 29, 2023 23:00:36 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] usedoilanalysis
[ - ] usedoilanalysis [op] 0 points 2.2 yearsJan 30, 2023 05:07:45 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] usedoilanalysis
[ - ] usedoilanalysis [op] 0 points 2.2 yearsJan 29, 2023 22:17:32 ago (+0/-0)
Things have improved dramatically in terms of oil formulations reducing the tendency of valves to build up crap on them. Along with redesigned EGR and PCV systems. Also some manufacturers like Toyota and GM are using both port and direct injection in their engines giving you the benefits of both.