Arecently released study suggests the number of Christians in the United States is diminishing quickly and being replaced by those who do not identify with any religion.
A new report by Pew Research Center and the General Social Survey published Tuesday found a surge of adults leaving Christianity to become atheist, agnostic or "nothing in particular." It predicted that if the number of Christians under 30 abandoning their faith accelerates beyond the current pace, adherents of the historically dominant religion of the U.S. could become a minority by 2045.
Noting how approximately 90% of Americans identified as Christians in the early 1990s, the study observed that number, which includes children, had fallen to only 64% by 2020. The number of people in the U.S. who identify as religiously unaffiliated, meanwhile, skyrocketed from 16% in 2007 to 29% in 2020, the research showed. Other religions such as Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism, accounted for approximately 6% in 2020.
The study presented four hypothetical scenarios by which the U.S. religious landscape could change in the coming decades. In one scenario, researchers analyzed the potential impact of young Christian adults abandoning their faith and switching affiliation without limitation.
The other three scenarios hypothesize other types of increasing religious disaffiliation, but "they all show Christians continuing to shrink as a share of the U.S. population, even under the counterfactual assumption that all switching came to a complete stop in 2020."
All four scenarios project swelling ranks among the religiously unaffiliated, or "nones," throughout the next half century. The only scenario that projects Christians maintaining a majority in the U.S. through 2070 is if no one changes their religious affiliation after 2020.
"Of course, it is possible that events outside the study’s model – such as war, economic depression, climate crisis, changing immigration patterns or religious innovations – could reverse current religious switching trends, leading to a revival of Christianity in the United States," the study said. "But there are no current switching patterns in the U.S. that can be factored into the mathematical models to project such a result."
METHODIST LEADERS SAY ‘REBELLION AND DYSFUNCTION’ OVER LGBT ISSUES SPLITTING DENOMINATION
The study's data showed that while more older Americans are remaining identified with Christianity, many younger adults are increasingly switching to "nones."
"If the pace of switching before the age of 30 were to speed up throughout the projection period without any brakes, Christians would no longer be a majority by 2045," Pew researchers noted.
In such a scenario, the number of religiously unaffiliated would stand at 52% and the number of Christians dip to 35% by 2070.
"Switching has not ended and there is no reason to think it will come to an abrupt stop," the researchers said, adding, "Still, if fewer future young adults switch from Christianity to no affiliation, or if movement in the opposite direction increases, the future religious landscape might resemble the results of this projection."
The researchers predicted based on recent generational trends that the most likely scenario among their hypotheticals is Christianity declining but still remaining capped at 50%.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/christianity-quickly-diminishing-in-us-on-pace-to-become-minority-religion-in-decades-study/ar-AA11ShED?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=d0f98cbf5f8e49ad97796bd9b233386d
[ + ] Master_Foo
[ - ] Master_Foo 7 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 13:36:39 ago (+13/-6)
It's a lot easier to red pill someone who is in the cult of Starbucks than it is Christianity.
Sorry buddy, this is a good thing, and the only reason you think it's a bad thing is because you are the one worshiping a Jew.
[ + ] NaturalSelectionistWorker
[ - ] NaturalSelectionistWorker 1 point 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 16:21:08 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Master_Foo
[ - ] Master_Foo 3 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 18:09:13 ago (+4/-1)*
Most Marxists either grow the fuck out of it when they get their first job and actually have to learn how money works, or they die of a drug overdose by age 26.
For all the other Marxists, we have a mechanism to deal with Marxists. Hatchet inserted into face. Pretty simple.
But, the problem is, the Christ-Cucks will NEVER EVER EVER allow for a solution, because THAT'S THE JOB OF THE CHRIST-CUCK. Christ-Cucks have one job "Protect the Jewish subversion".
So, let the Christ-Cucks worship Marx. We'll put hatchets in their faces and we can finally enter our Heroic-Age.
[ + ] CHIRO
[ - ] CHIRO 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 20:29:19 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] PhimoticEmbrace
[ - ] PhimoticEmbrace 4 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 23:22:11 ago (+4/-0)
[ + ] Master_Foo
[ - ] Master_Foo 2 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 21:37:31 ago (+2/-0)
This is why the Christ-Cucks resent the idea of the Heroic Age. They know they won't be a part of it and so they create barriers preventing it from happening.
Need proof? Ask 100 pastors what they would do if they saw a White man curb stomping a baby Jew. He'll call the police, all 100 pastors would call the police.
The only question you need to ask yourself right now is. Are you interested in creating the Heroic Age? Or are you one of the people who prevent the Heroic Age?
[ + ] UncleDoug
[ - ] UncleDoug 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 17, 2022 03:12:07 ago (+0/-0)
He'd ask if he can sexually molest the baby first.
[ + ] boomerkiller
[ - ] boomerkiller 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 17, 2022 14:58:20 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Master_Foo
[ - ] Master_Foo 1 point 2.7 yearsSep 17, 2022 16:16:31 ago (+1/-0)
But you won't because you know the Heroic Age does not include you.
So, instead, you take the black pill and act like a cunt.
[ + ] boomerkiller
[ - ] boomerkiller 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 17, 2022 19:54:20 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] GeneralDisarray
[ - ] GeneralDisarray 7 points 2.8 yearsSep 16, 2022 12:36:43 ago (+14/-7)
The Christ cucks have made Israel first and gave them trillions of tax dollars while making them immune from any accountability for crimes they commit against Americans.
Israel runs the US government, banks, courts and media. And the Christians defend them to the very last.
The biggest crimes committed against the USA have been Mossad operations. Epstein, 911, covid genocide, trans mutilation of kids, central banking, illegal immigration and race baiting!
Even Jesus said you will know them by their fruits. The fruits of Christianity is treason, poverty, genocide and slavery.
That's why they are losing support.
Show me a pastor that speaks up against the new world order and the satanists doing all this!!!
They are fully enabling all this.
[ + ] zongongo
[ - ] zongongo 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 13:15:54 ago (+0/-0)
Though he doesn't name the jew.
[ + ] knightwarrior41
[ - ] knightwarrior41 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 13:49:45 ago (+1/-1)
https://letsgobrandongreen.com/is-jesse-lee-peterson-a-homosexual
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0M3eDtJfiw
https://eurweb.com/2022/07/15/anti-gay-pastor-jesse-lee-peterson-caught-up-in-same-sex-scandal/
[ + ] oppressed
[ - ] oppressed [op] -2 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 14:28:19 ago (+1/-3)
[ + ] diggernicks
[ - ] diggernicks 2 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 14:33:04 ago (+4/-2)
You may as well threaten us with the boogy man
[ + ] ThisGuy
[ - ] ThisGuy 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 18:11:32 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] diggernicks
[ - ] diggernicks 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 19:44:19 ago (+0/-0)
Youre welcome
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena -2 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 17:27:49 ago (+0/-2)
[ + ] diggernicks
[ - ] diggernicks 1 point 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 17:29:17 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 2 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 18:00:18 ago (+3/-1)
[ + ] diggernicks
[ - ] diggernicks 1 point 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 18:06:18 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 18:09:11 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] diggernicks
[ - ] diggernicks 1 point 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 18:10:06 ago (+1/-0)
Bigger faggots than you have tried and failed
[ + ] Redhairin
[ - ] Redhairin 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 19, 2022 03:04:37 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] GeneralDisarray
[ - ] GeneralDisarray 2 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 15:13:05 ago (+4/-2)
I don't give a fuck about your carrot and stick heaven and hell trick.
Or the subtle normalization of blood sacrifice, human sacrifice and canabalisim.
All abrihamic religions are based on narcissistic abuse tactics. You are playing into the satanists hands by following their sick ideas of god.
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena -3 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 14:58:36 ago (+1/-4)
Great argument.
[ + ] GeneralDisarray
[ - ] GeneralDisarray 3 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 15:21:42 ago (+4/-1)
I'm not allowed to think differently or even debate your sacred cow without having a label put on me!!!
Great argument.
How is protecting and financing people that are attacking us in every aspect of our lives building unity?
You are such a lemming. Disgruntled that some of the lemmings don't join you jumping off the cliff.
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 2 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 17:47:54 ago (+2/-0)
What’s my sacred cow? Why am I a lamming? Because Im a christian?
I’m not a christian. I’m an atheist.
I’m against brother wars and this is one. The christians on this site are WN, thats good enough for me. You can condemn pro-homo pro-immigrant christians without attacking all christians because christianity is not monolithic. Different christians believe different things. This is called not chopping your nose off to spite your face. Hitler understood this.
Cdl. Vigano, to start with. https://rumble.com/vn4rlv-the-vigano-tapes-the-complete-interview.html .
Bishop Williamson. Lots of other examples of based protestant ministers too.
[ + ] PhimoticEmbrace
[ - ] PhimoticEmbrace 2 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 23:26:53 ago (+2/-0)
I'm so glad we've reached the "not all christians" stage. As long as some of them aren't faggots, we shouldn't judge the majority. Right?
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 17, 2022 02:30:28 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] PhimoticEmbrace
[ - ] PhimoticEmbrace 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 17, 2022 02:47:02 ago (+0/-0)
Believe it or not, I used to defend christians. Their behaviour changed that.
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 17, 2022 03:04:08 ago (+0/-0)
Maybe humans work better on religion. Maybe they are more effective and functional in some respects.
Is it a coincidence that societ falls apart just as people stop being christians?
[ + ] UncleDoug
[ - ] UncleDoug 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 17, 2022 03:14:24 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 18, 2022 14:27:40 ago (+0/-0)
Human brains are not rationality machines. They are survival machines. Our mental simulations of reality are not accurate. You need to lose this anti-theist arrogance because it’s not rational. Your grandparents, great grandparents etc all worshipped jesus and you are not smarter than them, or more rational. All that is down to genetics.
[ + ] diggernicks
[ - ] diggernicks 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 17:52:17 ago (+0/-0)
Preheat the ovens to maximum
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 17:56:26 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] diggernicks
[ - ] diggernicks 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 19:45:08 ago (+0/-0)
Nigger loving catholics are enemies of america
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 19:46:45 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] diggernicks
[ - ] diggernicks 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 19:47:45 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 23:27:21 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] diggernicks
[ - ] diggernicks 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 16:56:34 ago (+0/-0)
Wimminz cant logic
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 4 points 2.8 yearsSep 16, 2022 12:22:02 ago (+5/-1)
[ + ] diggernicks
[ - ] diggernicks 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 14:30:33 ago (+1/-1)
Christ cuck nigger loverrs are failures
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 1 point 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 17:53:46 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] diggernicks
[ - ] diggernicks 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 20:08:18 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] ThisGuy
[ - ] ThisGuy 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 18:12:25 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] diggernicks
[ - ] diggernicks 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 18:13:20 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] ThisGuy
[ - ] ThisGuy 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 18:33:50 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] diggernicks
[ - ] diggernicks 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 18:35:03 ago (+0/-0)
Your perma PMS is amusing
[ + ] ThisGuy
[ - ] ThisGuy 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 18:37:17 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] diggernicks
[ - ] diggernicks 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 18:39:08 ago (+0/-0)
I dont give a fuck what random nigs on the internet think
Cry harder hitch
[ + ] ThisGuy
[ - ] ThisGuy 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 18:40:15 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] diggernicks
[ - ] diggernicks 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 18:40:57 ago (+0/-0)
Youre good for a laugh if nothing else
[ + ] fritz_maurentod
[ - ] fritz_maurentod 3 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 16:04:08 ago (+3/-0)
The first one is that the whole idea is absurd. You have to be either too stupid to believe it or live in an environment like the Islamic countries in which any critical thought is severely punished. With all the information out there and the Jews pointing you continuously to it, it doesn't take long for a person of average IQ to become atheist.
The second reason is that Christianity has always been weak by design. Right before the discovery of the Americas, Christianity lost 3/4 of its territory to Islam and would be now gone, had not been for the new resources they suddenly got.
People need a religion though. They are picking climate change to fill the void since it has all the elements they need: prophets, armageddon, demons, etc.
What we need was postulated by Francis Galton: a religion based around eugenics.
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena -1 points 2.7 yearsSep 18, 2022 13:19:53 ago (+0/-1)
You cannot have unlimited free thought. Thats how jews destroyed us. So then its simply a question of how much you control thought and which thoughts you allow.
Atheists used to be peole with high IQs. Now most stupid people in the US are atheist by default, at least id they live in blue states. I dont think it correlates to critical thinking as much as zip codes. Where you are born determines whther you are atheist.
Im not sure why christianity spread so fast except that monotheism perhaps had great appeal for some people in the religion racket, to control the provinces of the empire. Perhaps monotheism is a sort of globalism. It was not weak, it spread through europe like a virus and destroyed the previous religions.
Islam also had a rapid massive expansion and I do know why— polygamy. Polygamy (really polygyny) is supported by slavery in all “civilized” societies. You can have as many wives and kids as you want if you are a successful thug that subjugates many workers and you spread the polygamy-slavery religion. Thugs begin to outbreed workers, and soon you have a totally non-productive society in which everyone wants to be a polygynous warlord and no one wants to work for a living. Islam is not self sustaining because it suffers from the the limitations of the predator in the classic predator-prey problem. Predators are only successful as long as the prey is successful. Islamic expansion crapped out. Its good for conquering societies not building them.
Polygamy was more heavily practiced in pre-islamic middle east so perhaps it took hold more easily there. Polygamy was not specifically proscribed in early christianity, it was just generally enforced by the greeks and romans. Thats why monogamy became part of christianity. Monogamy makes more productive peaceful cultures. Christianity tends to reflect europeans’ values more than the bible imo. Europeans are more altruistic than middle easterners. That is because of our high rates of monogamy, which are not imposed but typical of cold climate populations.
I think this is the wrong way to think about it. If christianity was so weak the muslims would have conquered europe a thousand years ago
How did it get those resources? Why didnt the semites discover and colonize the new world? Germanic christians settled the eastern seaboard of the US creating a true european country, not some mercantilist outpost filled with half breeds. How is that weak? A million white women got in rickety boats and crossed the ocean. That was a feat.
Yes. There are some good things that we have accomplished within christianity. There’s no reason to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Some of the values of traditional christianity are eugenic and some are dysgenic. The amish for example have many eugenic practices— distributed power structure, not using welfare, SS, or insurance, shunning displays of ostentation and excessive pleasure seeking behaviors, enforced monogamy, etc. They are incredibly productive and they barely use electricity.
[ + ] fritz_maurentod
[ - ] fritz_maurentod 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 18, 2022 13:54:21 ago (+0/-0)
Europe is demographically gone and with it Christianity. As you said, Islam -like Judaism- cannot sustain itself without a host to leech on. When they are done with Europe, they'll start looking at America, China, etc. Perhaps America will be so far down the Idiocracy that the Mexicans will defend themselves against the Muslims.
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 18, 2022 14:20:45 ago (+0/-0)
Eugenics is the key. With the right pattern anything is possible.
[ + ] UncleDoug
[ - ] UncleDoug 3 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 14:41:23 ago (+4/-1)
[ + ] NaturalSelectionistWorker
[ - ] NaturalSelectionistWorker 2 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 14:49:03 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] Reawakened
[ - ] Reawakened 2 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 14:18:43 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] BlowjaySimpson
[ - ] BlowjaySimpson 2 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 18:05:43 ago (+2/-0)
Give it up. Christianity is a CivNat cuck non starter for saving Western Civilization.
It's like trusting your immune system to fight off cancer, when what is needed is a hot knife to excise tumors.
[ + ] osomperne
[ - ] osomperne 1 point 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 21:53:38 ago (+1/-0)
Today my relative responded to my question about what it would take for them to believe Jews were in charge in the world and they said "god would have to open up the skies and declare it so".
There's a female pastor across the street with a homo flag on the church and a Jewish organizer for the whole thing
[ + ] BlueEyedAngloMasterRaceGod
[ - ] BlueEyedAngloMasterRaceGod 1 point 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 19:23:45 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] oppressed
[ - ] oppressed [op] -2 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 22:51:00 ago (+0/-2)
[ + ] diggernicks
[ - ] diggernicks 1 point 2.7 yearsSep 17, 2022 22:14:54 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] BlueEyedAngloMasterRaceGod
[ - ] BlueEyedAngloMasterRaceGod 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 23:21:13 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] ThisGuy
[ - ] ThisGuy 1 point 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 18:10:29 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] UncleDoug
[ - ] UncleDoug 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 18, 2022 23:18:55 ago (+0/-0)
It does which is why religion is required for the sheep people, but they should not be venerating jew parables when we have White creation myths.
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena -1 points 2.7 yearsSep 17, 2022 02:37:57 ago (+0/-1)
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 1 point 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 17:58:41 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] diggernicks
[ - ] diggernicks 1 point 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 21:59:46 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 22:16:07 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] diggernicks
[ - ] diggernicks 1 point 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 22:26:09 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 17, 2022 02:00:12 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] diggernicks
[ - ] diggernicks 1 point 2.7 yearsSep 17, 2022 09:37:05 ago (+1/-0)
Who the fuck you think youre fooling?
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 18, 2022 11:44:58 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Sunman_Omega
[ - ] Sunman_Omega 1 point 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 15:15:42 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] diggernicks
[ - ] diggernicks 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 23:00:20 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 1 point 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 14:58:31 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 15:36:05 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] diggernicks
[ - ] diggernicks 1 point 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 20:58:59 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 18, 2022 11:55:26 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] osomperne
[ - ] osomperne 1 point 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 13:16:25 ago (+1/-0)
Classic garbage headline.
[ + ] Razzoriel
[ - ] Razzoriel 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 17, 2022 09:49:03 ago (+0/-0)
It only cares if you're Christian, which then puts you as an additional level of threat. That says all you need to know.
[ + ] BlowjaySimpson
[ - ] BlowjaySimpson 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 18:02:41 ago (+1/-1)
Christcucks are pathetic.
[ + ] AntiPostmodernist
[ - ] AntiPostmodernist -1 points 2.7 yearsSep 17, 2022 18:01:02 ago (+0/-1)
[ + ] Rob3122
[ - ] Rob3122 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 16:01:25 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 17:02:36 ago (+0/-0)
Religion is the set of behaviors that help a genetically related cooperative society regulate economic and reproductive activities of the group— which are make or break for the survival of that society. You can’t have individuals sharing economic burdens or other risks if you dont regulate behavior. The sheep must be controlled — by the other sheep. That is done through morals. This is part of your brain’s architecture. And its genetic. It varies from group to group.
Religion can be co-opted by manipulative opportunists, like jews or other priestly castes. But that does not mean religion is only a source of enslavement. Religion is a positive adaptation that exists in all human populations. If it was so harmful, many or all societies wouldn’t show a trace of it. It is useful for high levels of cooperation, but social parasites use it to exploit the population.
Your understanding of reality is not a simulacrum of reality, it is a religious paradigm of reality. It’s not strictly rational. Religion != God.
[ + ] CHIRO
[ - ] CHIRO 1 point 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 20:41:46 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 1 point 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 22:13:28 ago (+1/-0)
Of course if I was completely objective maybe I would say it doesnt matter what religion you have as long as it helps the followers of your religion to reproduce alot or maybe destroy all the other religions. But I have a subjective bias toward certain outcomes like lower violence, lower exploitation, greater egalitarianism, greater intelligence , greater honesty. If the hunman race has a purpose, its maybe to understand the universe. Humans are the closest thing yet to the universe understanding itself. If humans can become more efficient and honest, we can meet our own needs and spend more time unserstanding the universe— the network of human brains is an awesome computer. (I guess this is the hippy dippy part of my “religion”)
But instead, the most efficient, hard working, productive people are being parasitized by people whose evolved strategy is is to exploit others through deception, theft, addiction. What I call excessive competition, which leads to overall bad outcomes. All that shit is inefficiency and misinformation.
I think we can “cheat” evolutionary competition by managing it and directing it towards more positive outcomes. Mother nature created some positive outcomes in europeans and east asians, but conditions have changed and we need to actively take charge of our own evolution.
[ + ] CHIRO
[ - ] CHIRO 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 17, 2022 01:06:04 ago (+0/-0)*
What is there worth worshipping in evolution? Belief in does not equal veneration or reverence. There's a coffee mug on my table. My religion is not muggist.
Why?
What is the point?
Here's the thing. I don't think many atheists really understand their theory, and I say this without the slightest bit of condescension, because the intuitions that cause them not to understand their own theory just are those which the theist will understand as intellectual intuition of The Good.
What I mean is that atheists fail to comprehend all of the consequences of their theory. If atheism is true, then there is only futility. You speak about better and worse genes, and better and worse societies...for what? Who cares?
You say: to survive.
Why? Who cares?
You say: to make sure my children and their children survive.
Why? Who cares?
You'll be long gone. If you think that sounds simplistic and cynical, again, I don't think you're comprehending all of the consequences of your theory, or what death really entails if atheism is true. Nothing matters. You will die. So you have children. They're going to die. We could dominate the planet, live for billions of years, and eventually this universe is going to fail to support any life at all. Eventually, each of us, even your great, great grandchild will be dead long enough not to exist even in the memories of their progeny.
And what is your comfort? That they will be there, running the exact rat race that each of those before him did, just to continue the fact of existence...and for what? To expand as far into space as we can before all chemical reactions become impossible to proceed?
Now, it may very well be that you have a short-term interest in 'your people' having differential survival success, especially since we're dealing with the brutal ape species called homo sapiens. If you lose, you might be raped and murdered. Your children might be raped and murdered. Therefore it would be very well if everyone had their shit together so that you might personally live in the comfort of your apex echelon in society, at least within the auspices of relative dominance.
But let's make no mistake, that the only rational approach to the fact of life, which has no special station in this universe (it is just a particular local configuration of chemical reactions), if one is too afraid to kill himself or herself, is hedonism. That is, to pursue within the bounds of reason a tradeoff between the maximum and the most stable stream of pleasure/comfort that is possible given what you expect to be the term of your natural life.
And if we are to be honest about the nature of life and its pleasures/joys, since we've said elsewhere that objectivity is a value, then we must admit that life is more tragic than it is joyful. To be sure, our moments of emotional joy (do not be fooled to believe they are anything other than a certain neural state, nothing else) might convince us, because of the quality of what it is like to be in them, that they are the 'purpose of life'. But life has no purpose. Purpose is telos, and under evolution there is only reproduction. All of the rewards commensurate with pleasurable neural states are at least indirectly related to this essential function, and life consists of disproportionate suffering. By this I mean that it is filled with sheer mundane boredom and monotony at best; at worst, it is filled with far more abject suffering, together with the brute fact that one's physical peak is reached roughly a quarter of the way through (so that he/she might reproduce) and the rest of life consists thereafter of one's wick burning out - often meaning physical and mental degeneration, wasting away before the eyes of those we know. Calling these things our 'golden years' in some kind of sick joke to make light of the fact we're too old to reproduce or do anything socially relevant any longer, like fight wars, steal thrones, steal off in a fiery romance or slay a dragon.
And most people won't think for more than twenty seconds about the most brutal fact, that they're going to die, and that's the end of it. Really the end. No more experience. The world goes on and eventually forgets you, and you won't be there for it.
And that's not even to begin speaking about the myriad disappointments, failures, hopeful lies we tell ourselves to scar over our mediocrity. That's not even to touch on children born with congenital birth defects, or who get bone cancer and die before they've even gotten a chance to fuck, or the kid who for absolutely no fucking reason other than bad luck (pure fucking chance) gets thrown into a medical machine, on a slew of drugs that alters his or her life forever - literally changes them as a person. Hopefully my boy or girl will find someone nice to settle down with.
Or the fact you are just 30,000 days of rising, working, eating and sleeping, with some good neural states here and there.
What a flight of fancy the atheist must come back from when they personify the universe this way! What is the ontological basis for your connection between man and the universe, as though we are some mentalistic appendage of this universe, used by the latter as instrument for its self-understanding? This is nonsense under atheism, and I mean pure nonsense.
You have no more connection to the universe than you do to the moon, or to anything on earth even. It's all stuff. You're also just stuff. The universe isn't an object. It's a collection. It's just the collection of objects. There just happens to be stuff, and the universe is just the thought: 'taking all that stuff together'.
Again, I don't think many atheists go 'full atheist'. It's bleaker than the bleakest, and any attempt to salvage the non-bleak from it is mere coping. I cannot stress this enough.
And I find your whole premise in this most recent quote so ironic. It's ironic in its optimism, which can have no basis in your own theory. For whatever it would be that understands the universe, it can only be intellect. And what happens when man turns his intellect upon his lot objectively? Is it an expansive and unifying understanding of a holistic universe replete with meaning and purpose? No, it's a collection of things that's eventually going to expand to the point that all chemistry stops and all of the thermodynamic history that preceded it is futile, forever.
When man turns his intellect objectively upon the state of affairs under atheism, then antinatalism becomes rational. Suicide becomes rational. And if one reasons against suicide because either (a) he fears death or (b) he fears the pain of death or (c) he convinces himself that there is something worthwhile to do (for the sake of the future, of course!), then all of this is only interpreted (that is, its significance is determined) as the result of a more or less autonomous first-person filter, via which all good things are good contingently upon they impact the neurons, i.e. neural states. We think: love. We think: productive work. We think: legacy. None of this is good because it is objectively good, in itself, nor is it good because you 'said so' like some pathetic existentialist. No, the alternatives to suicide will be rationally worthwhile just because they cause certain neural states to be the case, which in turn cause your interpretations of those things to be positive. It's all arbitrary. Whether those things are actually good is an incoherent question under atheism. They make your neurons do things that cause your awareness to contain a positive value-tone of feeling, and that summarizes the entire dynamic of every motivation you'll ever have, so that this unfortunate assemblage of meat and bone and sinew can autonomously pursue replicating itself according to the same paradigm that amino acids do in muck, and viruses do in ant brains.
Weinstein once said, "Once you understand the game, why would you continue to play it?" How's that for the intellect turning on itself and understanding the universe?
Who cares? Are you afraid these parasites will make your life harder in the short-run? You'd like to live without that fear? In the long-run, it cannot matter. You'll be gone. Non-existent. It doesn't matter what happens on this planet. The planet will be gone. The universe will be gone. This is a dance of shit taking place by sheer accident of temperature, pressure, and the right substrate in water.
Who cars if parasites win? Because you need to secure a future for your people? For what? To do more surviving? To win what? What is this game? And what have our winners for winning?
Isn't that just evolution talking though? What is this duality where 'you' are taking charge? What's you? And what's it taking charge of? Isn't 'you' just evolution anyway, so isn't whatever you're talking about still just evolution? The irony that you believe in evolution but that you set whatever 'you' is categorically apart from it, such that you can control it and somehow be independent from it.
Well what part of you was independent from this god evolution? It's like not knowing whether one is dreaming. How can you know you are not just programmed by evolution to think this way about evolution and 'overcoming it'?
From where is this independence and humanism arising? If you want to be an atheist, be an atheist.
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 18, 2022 17:15:42 ago (+0/-0)*
I don’t literally worship it. I appreciate it. I recognize its hand in living organisms and their behavior wherever I see it, including in human social upheavals.
I agree, most don’t . They don’t want to apply their own theory to human society. Atheist, pro-evolution cultural elites push all kinds of magical thinking on the masses. There’s loads of cognitive dissonance. They think evolution is over as far as humans are concerned and we can live in some evolution free bubble pursuing a multiracial utopia where we simply subvert our competitive drives and pursue pleasure all day long and have robots serve us.
There’s nihilism if you dont have a purpose for the human race. I believe the purpose of the human race is to comprehend the universe more fully. Perhaps when we do we will realize we have other purposes as well. But its clear to me that the course of the evolution of life on earth has been one of increasing complexity and that complexity is directly related to the complexity of the niches that organisms have sought to exploit. It is as if higher orders of organisms are comprehending greater and greater levels of the complexity of the universe. The information of the universe has been encoded within the genetics of these organisms to a greater and greater degree as evolution has progressed and organisms have “understood” a larger piece of the universe. Dogs know more about the universe than a planaria.
Now —with speech, reading and writing, digital storage— we have an even faster acquisition of information about the universe than just recording updates in the DNA every few dozen generations. The human race has become a hive mind, a distributed computer of cultural information. If that information is accurate we can understand the universe and our place in it.
Maybe when we do understand “everything,” we will find we have no purpose and we will self annihilate. But the point is, we don’t know what our purpose is for sure. We don’t understand our place in the universe. But we never will if we continue to believe untrue things indefinitely.
I happen to think that current atheistic ideologies have untrue beliefs like “government is magic” and “psychotherapists can heal you through faith and $100 an hour”. So I’m not antagonistic toward Christian ideologies that promote honesty and efficiency and not exploitation under the guise of christian charity and tolerance. Conservative christian movements seem to have alot of the right principles or tenets I think will lead to more cooperative efficient societies. In short, they have eugenic policies. We will not get better by mixing with people that are more corrupt, more violent, stupider, less self-sustaining. We must avoid exploitive behaviors because jews and other elites, though very intelligent, ultimately have a parasitic strategy that spreads disinformtion to expand their power. This is a negative form of competition. We want humans to compete through merit, not deception and violent subjugation, because our goal is to accumulate accurate information while sustaining ourselves efficiently at the individual level— not chasing pleasure endlessly. We should improve our race toward that end. Negative or excessive competition is the obstacle to us forming a society based on cooperation and truth.
Maybe you will say that the search for “truth” is empty without god but Im not sure that saying god is ultimate goodness and justice and we should live for him is any better than my answer to the meaning of life. We like the idea that there is this human-like intelligence that imbues the universe with meaning and rightness and wrongness and he “has a plan” that’s a mystery and too complicated for us to handle but don’t worry. Isn’t that kicking the can down the road?
God is an anthropomorphism of the interests of our society, our ethno-cultural group. Good and evil are whatever alot of people in the society think are beneficial/harmful to the society. Gambling is evil because its harmful to the economics of a society. Same with prostitution or drugs or homo. Lots of corrupt inefficient societies limp along while tolerating these behaviors and they wonder why they are shitholes. Look no further than good old fashioned christian “sins”. They aren’t offenses against god, they are offenses against the group.
My genes won’t be. Ideally, the ones worth saving will go on to exist in people that will build a better society. This is the only sense in which people live forever. I am very much the same person as my NW European ancestors from 1000 years ago. We have the same architecture.
I get your point, but I feel it isn’t an argument. I also think its reckless to dismantle existing religious cultures and dismissing their rules as superstition because all of the narratives of that religion are not literally true. I think the social model that the religon enforces is the important part.
No, the most rational approach is to avoid hedonism, which is a pitfall of evolution. A really smart rational moth would not fly to the light bulb/candle/blue zapper thingy. Understand that exploitive individuals and groups enslave you through dopaminergic pathways to achieve their own reproductive success and that is dysgenic. “Drugs are fine” is cultural disinformation that leads to a drop in efficiency that is society wide. It cannot be justified. It is hacking human neurology and it leads to negative social outcome.
To be continued....
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 18, 2022 19:18:06 ago (+0/-0)*
I can address every single one of these “points” individually but I’m not sure what I will be arguing against. I see atheists on this site make the same arguments to “christcucks” as if they somehow disprove the existence of god because if he lets this stuff happen he’s obviously a bastard. It’s a stupid argument.
If you understand life in the context of evolution— at least as I do— this does not seem like pointless suffering at all but part of a process in which civilizations in general trend towards the better. All these problems seem unendurable to you outside of the context of God because you don’t see the meaning of it. I do.
But we are. This is what I believe. If anything, I am de-personifying the human race.
It’s a system. It has order. That system is the only meaning that exists. We understand a fraction of that system. Amoebas understand an even smaller fraction of that system. Maybe we should figure out the nature of that system before we declare its a rando collection of stuff that has no meaning. We are that stuff and yet we can comprehend that stuff. That is a paradox. But just because we do not have a supernatural soul outside of this natural universe does not mean life has no meaning.
Nonsense. Thats just a bunch of jews brainwashing atheists that values have no meaning, that culture has no meaning. European traditional values all have a purpose. We understood them in a christian context but their real meaning and purpose is within evolution and they have every bit the meaning you imbue them with as a christian. People didn’t understand evolution as well in antiquity (although they had an instinctual sense of it) so they filled in the blanks with an anthropomorphic deity that wants us to do things that are good for our people. It’s still in our interest to do that generally although I think because we have a better understanding of whats going on, we can avoid some problems that arise from hypercompetition which lead to destructive behaviors.
Let me risk sounding a little patronizing, and you are free to reject my thoughts but it will give you a sense of where I am coming from. I think your sense of right and wrong, your sense of meaning, are all behavioral traits which evolved without any supernatural help, and they are “stuff” like a bunch of nucleotide sequences and neurotransmitters and you have anthropomorphized all of that as GOD, which is the source of all meaning to you— so imagining that he doesnt exist is just the death of meaning to you and of moral order etc. It’s scary to question belief systems in this way because we are programmed to stick with the religion we are raised with, and its dangerous for individuals to change beliefs often— it leads to disunity and civil war. I will never tell you not to believe in god because the narrative is not as important to me as the value system. And atheistic belief systems are a mess right now.
But I find meaning in my beliefs and there’s nothing here that you discuss which I haven’t thought long and hard about. Focusing on this “bigger picture” helps me to deal with the vicissitudes of life. I am nowhere near suicide and I’m not nihilistic at all. Far from it. Evolution is a religion that gives life meaning and sense to me. Atheism is not enough. Everyone needs a systematic understanding of the nature of good and evil and I have that FROM evolution, not in spite of it. And my theory includes religious behavior and why it makes sense— it doesn’t dismiss it as superstition .
It’s the reason why I don’t eat myself to death. You can avoid the bad outcomes that occur from evolutionary competition if you understand your impulses and why you should not always follow them.
[ + ] Rob3122
[ - ] Rob3122 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 19:44:04 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 1 point 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 19:58:59 ago (+1/-0)
On some of those other sites I had people calling me a post wall roastie alot. So I decided to just go with it. I thought it was funny. I havent made a secret of being in my forties.
But I do not have roast beef curtains. More like a very short valance. Tailored, no pleats.
[ + ] CHIRO
[ - ] CHIRO 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 20:34:15 ago (+0/-0)*
FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, what do I have to do for you to let me stick my dick in your short valance!?
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 21:26:43 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] CHIRO
[ - ] CHIRO 1 point 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 22:48:30 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] boomerkiller
[ - ] boomerkiller 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 17, 2022 21:37:38 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] thebearfromstartrack4
[ - ] thebearfromstartrack4 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 15:05:37 ago (+1/-1)
[ + ] diggernicks
[ - ] diggernicks 1 point 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 16:57:22 ago (+2/-1)
[ + ] Lordbananafist
[ - ] Lordbananafist -2 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 13:02:48 ago (+0/-2)
WOOT WOOT
[ + ] zongongo
[ - ] zongongo 2 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 13:16:39 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] Lordbananafist
[ - ] Lordbananafist -1 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 13:19:47 ago (+1/-2)
EMBRACE THE MOIST LEATHERY WINGS OF PAZUZU
RIDE ON THE FETID ZEPHYR OF PAZUZU AND DESPAIR THE TERRIBLE WILL OF PAZUZU
[ + ] Ozark
[ - ] Ozark 1 point 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 13:35:51 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Lordbananafist
[ - ] Lordbananafist -2 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 13:45:19 ago (+0/-2)
[ + ] Ozark
[ - ] Ozark 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 14:16:45 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] lord_nougat
[ - ] lord_nougat 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 13:15:21 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted -6 points 2.8 yearsSep 16, 2022 12:20:11 ago (+1/-7)*
[ + ] diggernicks
[ - ] diggernicks 4 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 14:33:28 ago (+4/-0)
[ + ] DukeofRaul
[ - ] DukeofRaul 3 points 2.8 yearsSep 16, 2022 12:24:05 ago (+3/-0)
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 16, 2022 20:01:15 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] UncleDoug
[ - ] UncleDoug 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 17, 2022 03:15:20 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 2.7 yearsSep 17, 2022 03:35:37 ago (+0/-0)