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The politics of the "Taiwan Strait" is not nearly as much of a one-sided issue as the media would have you believe. Propaganda colors everything

submitted by Glowbright to WorldPolitics 2.9 yearsJun 21, 2022 12:11:26 ago (+13/-1)     (WorldPolitics)

Most people are unaware of significant details. I will attempt to put in simple terms:

When ever the US/China/Taiwan political situation heats up, like is happening right now, you will start to hear talk of the "Taiwan Strait." They will run news stories about big bad China laying claim to the the waters of the strait, or flying warplanes into Taiwan air space. Occasionally the US will sail warships through the Taiwan Strait and China will complain about the US infringing on it's territorial waters etc.


So who is lying and who is telling the truth? Which side is really doing inappropriate things? The problem is that it is impossible to tell from a news story because of the specifics of the geography of the Taiwan Strait. Taiwan proper sits about 150 miles off the coast of mainland China. When most people hear "Taiwan Strait" they think of this 150 mile wide strip of water running between Taiwan and China. The problem is that the area is littered with a collection of small islands some of which are under Taiwan's control and some are under China's control. Most important is Quemoy Island, or Kinmen Island which sits a mere 1.5 miles off the coast of mainland China. It literally sits in the harbor of the city of Xiamen.

So when the US military says they are sailing a warship through the Taiwan Strait it sometimes means nothing and sometimes it means the US sailed a warship into the harbor of a major Chinese city and flipped them the bird. When the PLA flies warplanes in to Taiwan air space, sometimes they are buzzing the Taiwan mainland and sometimes they are flying planes over their own harbor.

https://cdn.britannica.com/64/4564-050-EA4FD54D/Taiwan-map-features-locator.jpg

Look at this map and note the location of Quemoy island, Tung-Ting island, Wu-Ch'iu island, etc. Now look at Liu-Ch'iu island. These are the specific areas that have caused tensions. You should now understand why you cannot just read a headline. I am not sympathetic to the Chinese in any way but even I have to admit that sailing a ship between Quemoy and Xiamen places the US in the role of the aggressor. Buzzing Liu-Ch'iu island with war planes firmly places China in the role of aggressor. Western media intentionally keeps this all very vague for western audiences so they can spin any story any way they want.

Now go read this story and tell me who is right and who is wrong.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/china-us-escalate-over-legal-status-taiwan-strait-after-beijing-rejects-international Both sides are making unreasonable claims to territory and without knowing very specific details it is impossible to form a good position on any one specific incident.


20 comments block


[ - ] beece 3 points 2.9 yearsJun 21, 2022 12:26:12 ago (+3/-0)

`Thank you for the contextual location info.

[ - ] Glowbright [op] 0 points 2.9 yearsJun 21, 2022 12:38:35 ago (+0/-0)

You are welcome. Thanks for paying attention. We have a duty to make ourselves informed on matters of importance.

[ - ] GloryBeckons 0 points 2.9 yearsJun 23, 2022 07:06:50 ago (+0/-0)

I have to admit that sailing a ship between Quemoy and Xiamen places the US in the role of the aggressor

I would agree. But do you have any actual examples that something like that ever happened, under the umbrella of "sail through Taiwan Strait" and/or "international waters"? You're right that most news articles are missing crucial details, and so are effectively useless propaganda, but we can't just assume one way or the other either.

If all the US ever did is sail ships through the actual strait, halfway between China and Taiwan, or closer to Taiwan, with Taiwan's invitation, then they never did anything wrong. Sailing to the small Taiwanese islands close to China should be fine as well, since they must have international waterways to connect them to the high sea. If they deliberately pushed closer to China by sailing around the islands and into China's territorial waters, that would be deliberately aggressive.

See graphic and definition here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone#Definition
And also: https://www.encyclopedia.com/law/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/international-waterways

[ - ] Glowbright [op] 0 points 2.9 yearsJun 23, 2022 10:03:05 ago (+0/-0)

Yes it happens.The most dramatic instance of this was in 1958 when the US navy sailed the entire 7th fleet into Xiamen harbor. ...to be fair however the PLA was shelling the island with artillery at the time so in this case it is hard to call the US the aggressor

[ - ] FalseRealityCheck 0 points 2.9 yearsJun 21, 2022 23:53:07 ago (+0/-0)

Claims and counterclaims. Nobody "owns" anything until they can prevent somebody else from "owning" it. Later on another party comes along and takes "ownership". Claims are irrelevant unless one has the power to take and keep what they claim. Thus goes the history of the world.

[ - ] Glowbright [op] 0 points 2.9 yearsJun 22, 2022 15:48:29 ago (+0/-0)

And your point is? It is still important to understand. Only when you understand the details can you distinguish facts from propaganda.

[ - ] Not_C 0 points 2.9 yearsJun 21, 2022 18:49:30 ago (+0/-0)

US is the aggressor.... China in the role of aggressor.

Technically, only the US is an aggressor in the examples you listed.

Both China and Taiwan refuse to acknowledge their own existence separate from the other.

Therefore, the Taiwanese can't complain until they declare themselves as a separate country. Until then it's a Taiwanese aircraft, taking off from Taiwan, flown by a Taiwanese citizen, from the Taiwanese military, flying through Taiwanese airspace. (Yeah, ok I'm supposed to say the "Republic of China", but you get the point.) It's not an international incident, because it's not international.

Meanwhile, the US sailing ships through the Taiwan Strait - The US is a separate country. And yes they were invited by the Taiwanese, but not the mainland. So the US knew that they were deliberately creating an international incident. Making them an aggressor. It may not be illegal, but it is an aggressive act by an aggressor.

Either way, until Taiwan declares itself a separate country from the mainland, it can't cry or complain about anything. And whatever happens there is not our issue.

[ - ] bobdole9 0 points 2.9 yearsJun 21, 2022 14:43:12 ago (+1/-1)

Can't wait to hear Russia and Mexico become allies...then Russian ships hang off of the Baja peninsula, just a few miles from San Diego.

The joys of tit for tat.

[ - ] Joe_McCarthy 0 points 2.9 yearsJun 21, 2022 19:16:38 ago (+0/-0)

AMLO refused to join the sanctions regime. So that's a possibility maybe. Hopefully Baja becomes the new Cuba complete with a new missile crisis.

[ - ] Name 0 points 2.9 yearsJun 21, 2022 12:44:43 ago (+0/-0)

I thought it came down to artificially made islands not being recognized by international law as "territory"?

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/chinas-artificial-islands-news-rumors/

[ - ] Glowbright [op] 2 points 2.9 yearsJun 21, 2022 12:56:11 ago (+2/-0)

No... that is the 'South China Sea' that you are thinking about.

Completely different area and a completely different set of issues. Go look up the 'Nine Dash Line' for details https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/9_dotted_line.png

The South China Sea is a area of waters 1200 MILES south of mainland china. They built an artificial island and then claimed ownership of everything all the way back to the mainland. Everything inside the green dashes. Totally different. The South China Sea is fairly black and white... it is clearly a Empire-building land grab.

[ - ] Name 1 point 2.9 yearsJun 21, 2022 13:01:54 ago (+1/-0)

Thank you for the correction.

[ - ] JustALover 0 points 2.9 yearsJun 21, 2022 17:31:40 ago (+0/-0)

Oh man. That must be quite an old map, with HK still referred to as being a part of the UK.

Good times.

[ - ] BlueEyedAngloMasterRaceGod -1 points 2.9 yearsJun 21, 2022 20:00:57 ago (+0/-1)

who cares

[ - ] Glowbright [op] 0 points 2.9 yearsJun 22, 2022 15:46:14 ago (+0/-0)

Men of substance who think understanding the world is important

[ - ] parrygrin -1 points 2.9 yearsJun 21, 2022 14:44:10 ago (+0/-1)

...except the Chicoms inflicted a global pandemic on the world while Taiwan tried to warn us all in like, December of 2019.

Communism isn't cute, and the Chicoms have now proven that their obsession with centralized power is a threat to every man, woman and child on the planet.

It was one thing for Mao's top-down delusions to kill millions of Chinese. It's quite another for them to threaten the entire fucking species.

Nuking Beijing and handing everything over to Taipei is far more reasonable than it appears at first glance.

[ - ] Glowbright [op] 0 points 2.9 yearsJun 21, 2022 15:33:26 ago (+0/-0)

...And nothing you said has anything to do with the Taiwan Strait. Your comment is literally just "China Bad!" and this was not the topic of the post. We all agree that China = Bad... whats your point? That we should ignore the details of the tensions between the US and China and just blindly accept the propaganda stories in the media? That we should let the US be dragged into a war without the slightest examination of the facts? Shill somewhere else dicksplash.

[ - ] Joe_McCarthy -2 points 2.9 yearsJun 21, 2022 15:43:25 ago (+0/-2)

The US is the enemy. That's all you really need to know. Hence its enemies are our friends. Or potentially so.

[ - ] Glowbright [op] 0 points 2.9 yearsJun 21, 2022 16:01:36 ago (+0/-0)

lol, that has to be the dumbest hot take I have heard all week! Even if 'Death to America!' is your goal, rooting for China is monumentally stupid.

[ - ] Joe_McCarthy -1 points 2.9 yearsJun 21, 2022 16:05:59 ago (+0/-1)

If China can assist us in our goals they are useful. Simple as. We know where the US government falls in all this.