The SLU or Standard Labor-value Unit is defined as “the value of an hour of unskilled labor under standard conditions. The unit supersedes all other monetary bases in that it derives from the single invariable commodity of the human universe: toil.”
No, because a single hour of unskilled labour is not a uniform value. Some people work harder, some people work smarter, some people are more productive. Why should the value of an hour’s unskilled labour of a productive and efficient employee be diminished by the lower value of an unproductive and inefficient employee (that sure was a long winded way of saying nigger)?
That's disappointing. Skinner was one of the most based psychoanalysts of that time. But seeing him struggle to implement the ideals in some imaginary functioning society sort of leaves you wondering about things
I feel like it wouldn't but, then again, everything from seashells to USD has worked temporarily. I read about a town in Alaska that had some success doing this.
I think a better currency would be coupons to spend locally. Kind of like spend 2 ounces of silver to get $60 of local certificates to use at participating locations.
It keeps your money local and, you can exchange it back for silver. And the more people use it, the more it decouples from the dollar and you have a precious metal backed currency.
With globalization and outsourcing, it is impossible for a local community to completely escape the need for a "standard" currency to exist - think buying fuel or shipping goods in and out.
Everyone in the supply chain has to agree upon the currency being used, and accept the value of it.
In the game "Fallout New Vegas", as one example, the main currency is "caps" but NCR and Legion money also appears - but at some different value than caps.
Canada actually had (has?) a side currency called Canadian Tire Dollars - which worked only within a set ecosystem, but one that so many people used that it became workable.
Any local group creating their own currency would automatically be forced to lower the value of it when dealing with the outside world, due to the inconvenience of the receiving end not having a mechanism to barter with it.
Imagine living in an apartment and a client trying to pay you with a cow... If the cow is worth $500 on the market, would you accept the cow at $500 value? or would you deduct the transport, feeding or butchering costs from the transaction? (assuming the cow wasn't the intended gain to begin with)
For a community based currency, the inconvenience of an outsider having to travel to that community to use the currency makes it worth less. And everyone needs outsider goods and services - fuel, internet, shipping, etc.
The point of currency is that it serves as a transmissible/storable unit of incentive. Problem is, it's difficult to keep track of incentive without some kind of ledger. Currency just acts as an abstraction layer for incentive.
Problem is, you can't standardize a unit of labor. Incentive is different for each person. Try getting a $5 blowjob from a low class hooker and a high class hooker. See what the difference is. They are both "unskilled labor under standard conditions" but you'll only get the $5 blowjob from the low class hooker because incentive structures are different.
That's why incentive must be the fundamental unit of value, not labor.
it's a standard value system. people can demand and use however much of it they want to pay someone.
if a basic labor job presently pays $10 an hour, then that becomes 1 SLU. your high class hooker can charge any amount of SLU she wishes. the idea is that 1 SLU will never change to incur inflation etc. the amount of SLU printed is based on population size.
you mean with other nations? the state can set whatever rate of exchange they want, just as China does. $1 is set based on the market avg for unskilled labor. more is printed or burned directly in relation to the population growth/decrease, because as soon as someone is born (or you can delay it for 15 yrs or whatever) you are competing with that person for money. therefore the worth their energy adds to the economy is already equated for and no inflation occurs.
Yeah, who's going to calculate and verify all these exchanges? How about book keeping and making sure the entries are legit not forged?
Sounds like a lot of work. Maybe at the time of labor we could issue some sort of credit or token to signify just how much was done. we could give this token to the laborer and they could in turn give it to another laborer. That way we skip all the paperwork and verification
you guys are getting confused. the value of the currency is set, based on a measure of an hour of unskilled labor. we already generally do this, for example unskilled workers get paid generally around the same nationwide, say $10 an hour or whatever it is. it doesn't matter if Tim is a better worker than Dave, both start off on $10 at mcdonalds because the market has determined that that is the average worth across the nation for an average effort of unskilled labor. the market has made the measurement. if we transferred to SLU, 1 SLU would be worth $10, so everyone could transfer their old currency to SLUs based on a 10/1 transfer rate. Now if Tim proves himself a superior worker and deserving of more pay, he could get a pay rise to 1.2 SLU whilst Dave doesn't, even though they're both still unskilled workers. if some places want better workers from the start, they can pay 1.2SLU from the start. if an unskilled job is harder than general labor i.e construction is harder than customer service, construction workers on avg would start on 2SLU.
but the avg pay for a crap starting job of unskilled labor will remain forever at an avg across the market at 1SLU. if the currency is based on this, it won't change like our current one does, which is why an avg mcdonalds worker who used to be worth $3 an hr is now $10.
The National Socialist example is a great one to study.
The difference being the condition of the world today.
Back in the 1930s most peoples were just beginning to industrialize on a grand scale - having experienced a huge percentage shift from rural to urban society (although still mostly rural for most countries). The manufacturing was just starting to industrialize - and was all local. This gave governments a complete view of the economy of their country.
Yes, there was trade between countries, but nobody was so "specialized" that trade was required to acquire goods for the citizens. If Germany needed something that could be imported from England, a local German industry could/would attempt to meet that need.
In today's world, there is so much outsourcing and kikery that the opposite happens.
Say the US produces a widget that people need and it costs 1 SLU to produce locally.
Walmart will import it for way less than that. Which item will the majority purchase? Therefore the SLU will be a standard by which people will be reduced to accepting lower and lower wages to meet global production abilities.
The corporations of today have no loyalty toward country or employees - whereas the National Socialists prided themselves on helping their fellow countrymen.
Different times, and most likely not reproducible in a global marketplace. (especially a kiked one)
I understand. How do you generalize this principle without money?
That's (one thing) money does - give a contract that you can exchange labor in one place for labor or goods in another.
That's what I'm saying, your SLU is going to be wildly different from place to place because there's no high level authenticator. Tokens solve this problem (negotiations only have to happen upfront at the transaction) and without them your SLUs become unstable, unpredictable and unusable.
[ - ] localsal 1 point 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 06:24:33 ago (+1/-0)
The problem with all currency systems is how one sets the value to something.
This is a "chicken or egg" problem - what happened first? the exchange rate or the currency?
"Currency" as a concept emerged because the barter system was becoming a) untenable and b) less and less "person to person" and more of a marketplace.
Bringing a cow to market to trade for anything didn't help anyone anymore - who wants to accept and store a cow, hoping that someone else will show up with something to trade for said cow that both parties agreed upon?
Hence, currency was born - becoming a much more convenient form of storage, while also a basis by which every trade could be made using the "supply vs demand" or "value" proposition.
There was a discussion a while ago about using " one kwh of electricity" as the standard basis of value.
The same thing happened there - what is the exchange rate? who sets it?
For example - what is the value in SLU of one carrot? Of one gallon of water?
Someone dying of thirst would probably give 100 SLU for one gallon, while someone else living with an overflowing well would probably only get 0.1 SLU for that same gallon.
The history of technology and advancements is very interesting. The more "leisure" time men have, the more thoughts and ideas emerge - producing progress.
Is an hour of thinking that will save 1000 SLUs worth of labor, worth that 1000 SLUs? Or is only manual "toiling" for production worth an SLU?
Who sets the value?
Is finding an investment that will produce 1million SLUs still something that can happen?
No currency system "sets" value - it only represents a means to trade that value. All transactions are really just "barters", but use currency out of convenience.
Changing the type of currency system does nothing to set the value of any item.
not sure i get your point. goods have no set rate of exchange. people pay whatever they're willing to pay for them. the market usually determines an avg price.
And any "currency" is just a means to facilitate a transaction that everyone agrees upon.
Gold was a very good standard of trade for a long time for many reasons
1) it was rare. This is important for any currency - there has to be trust in it. Any currency that can "flood the market" or could be produced easily - either legitimately or illegitimately - can lower the trust.
Bitcoin has the advantage that there is a finite end to the production/mining. This means no counterfeits.
Side note: one of my beefs with "blockchain everything" is that in order to create new items in the blockchain, there has to be a mechanism for adding them - which opens the door for counterfeiting, etc.
2) everyone agreed upon the value of a unit of gold, typically by weight. This allowed trustworthy transactions - until the unseemly peoples started to cheat the system, etc.
3) it has to be convenient. carrying around 200lbs of gold to buy a car is not very fun. Even pocket change can become inconvenient nowdays when everything costs more than $1, etc.
The price is definitely set by the market - but only when the currency is well established and trusted.
Setting prices requires a large pool of people to be involved. This was relatively easy when urban settings were not the norm and the people all knew each other. This is when the doctor could be paid with a couple of chickens. The doc could live off the chickens for a few days - making the transaction beneficial.
As urbanization occurred, as well as more items at the market (luxuries and conveniences) then the market had to adapt to a better pricing scheme.
Currency and prices are definitely related, but vastly different in what they do. Currency is the means to a trade, but price is the effect of the trade. Just like the road is the escape for a bank robber, but the bank robbery is the actual effect. If a bank robber had a helicopter or flying car, the road would not be necessary, but the bank robbery would still occur.
But we do NEED to create our own currency, and this type of conversation is vital to that. And bitcoin, while it has it's positives, will not be that currency in my opinion.
You seem well thought out regarding this. Do you have an idea what that currency could be?
[ - ] localsal 1 point 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 07:13:10 ago (+1/-0)*
The reason we need a currency is because the current version of (((currency))) has all "those" problems lol.
Currency wasn't a problem when it was a physical - and trustworthy - entity. Walk into a store with cash and the exchange was simple.
As the world progressed, the same issues with cash happened that drove gold from the marketplaces - it became too unwieldy to walk into a car dealership with a huge wad of cash.
Thus the "check" and "credit" systems were developed.
Oh, but now that actual cash can be removed from the transaction by other tokens, the only reason for having a "dollar" is to keep things equal.
In order to establish a currency, there has to be a few very important traits: 1) scarcity/finite supply - if something is common or can be commonly made/faked, then that isn't a good currency 2) trust - something that can be verified easily, like those pens that mark large US bills, or the holograms, etc on others. 3) convenience - this is where bitcoin fails. Yes, it is easy to set up a trade using bitcoin, but there is a delay in the transaction, and the costs of each transaction are astronomical for small things. Unless someone can pop into a store with bitcoin and buy a gallon of milk for only a small percentage fee (credit cards are in the 2% range, which is still high, but people have accepted it) then bitcoin will not become an everyday currency.
The reason the one-world currency will appear and take over is because it will meet these three criteria, and everyone will (possibly reluctantly) adopt it.
The biggest problem with any new currency is actually "globalization" and "outsourcing".
An example: Suppose a small town - 1000 people or so - want to totally become self sufficient. They band together and pool their skills (for the sake of argument, everyone has a usable skill without excessive overlap) and develop a bartering system.
This community - think Amish in the US - can thrive to some extent.
What if the community wants to have internet? How does their "bartering" pay the ISP?
How does the community pay for fuel? Probably not by drilling or refining within their community. Luxuries are the problem. We all want them, and every luxury - and most necessities actually - cannot be produced ourselves.
This means any community that interacts will require some external currency - which also means that they will require someone/something as a "go between" between the outside world and themselves.
The "go between" is a vital mechanism in a black market as well. Someone that is willing to put themselves at risk of getting caught to bring legitimate goods to an underground scene. The lack of a "go between" just means that there is zero chance of purchasing legitimate needs inside that community. Stealing is obviously an option, but that incurs huge risk - not just for the robber, but for the entire community - and should be avoided.
As to the answer to your question: the best currency is one that is produced by a trusted source - and no government meets that requirement anymore. The US printed so many dollars in the last several years that who knows how many fake dollars have also been printed.
The ideas of currency based on labor or energy, etc, are all socialism in waiting. Edit: Because labor and energy are not finite - and cannot be viewed as created by a trusted source.
The promise of a bitcoin currency, if the delays and transaction costs can be reduced to near zero, would be revolutionary - but that will not happen due to the costs associated with mining and blockchain.
A global digital currency will happen - most likely by force - but that will not destroy the idea of a rebel currency still remaining.
Ironically, when the global digital currency is forced up humanity, the best currency will be cash - in any form. Dollar bills will become a standard once the governments stop printing them. With nobody mass producing fiat dollar bills, the supply is now finite - and barring counterfeiting - the old dollars now meet all 3 requirements for a usable currency.
Do you think such a digital currency could work - overcoming the inconveniences you mentioned - if people are no longer primarily shopping in stores? I'm envisioning a people which are mostly sedentary home-bodies, who are able to shop even for ordinary goods digitally, with a drone service delivering the package directly to their homes. The packages could be built at a local warehouse (not a shopping center). Regular supermarkets would become a thing of the past.
Of course, this is hypothetical. I just think if you consider several trends simultaneously, from drone delivery, to the push for short-range electric vehicles and transportation-as-a-service, to digital transactions and incentives to 'stay put', then a 1984-esque vision of the future starts to materialize. I'm wondering if a digital currency would work if and only if those conditions were met. Hence, maybe the conditions will be forced so as to make digital currency feasible (if the world isn't convenient for it, make the world different).
[ - ] localsal 1 point 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 11:55:46 ago (+1/-0)
I think mass adoption of a convenient digital currency will be pretty easy to do, for the exact reasons you mention.
The masses will become sedentary, living their "comfortable" lives day by day, ordering the necessities for delivery - much like the space fattards in Wall-E. These people will have zero problem with the WEF and others constantly tracking them and controlling their salary and spending.
The context of this post seems to be as an alternative to what the current and future currency systems will require, such as tracking and ultimately controlling who can buy what a la social credit scores.
There may be a few brick and mortar stores that are (((allowed))) to operate, just for the older people to continue to relive memories or to have the illusion of control over different foods.
I do imagine shopping in a brick and mortar store will become extinct for the most part, and maybe soon. The niggers with their daytime looting gangs, and other economic factors will make walmart, target, grocery stores, etc rethinking their expenses and losses. Stores will either have to be retrofitted for access control and stronger doors/windows, at high cost, or just close down and move inventory to a warehouse setting.
A good idea for a budding entrepreneur programmer would be to design a nice digital interface that acts much like a "pushing a cart down the aisle" shopping experience. Instead of doing a text based search as on amazon, recreate the aisle shopping experience, with items sorted by category, and brands, etc, with a much more robust search or item listing, with familiar locations on shelves where people normally see their favorite items. Think google maps, only interactive and for a store.
Couple this with the new warehouses full of product that only the "fulfillment shoppers" need to traverse (and are allowed in with security very much like a prison) - along with robotic picking/conveyor belt systems, and a single walmart size store of today can be the hub for maybe 500,000 people to get everything they need. Local delivery will also improve cost efficiency, and mathematically derived delivery routes will make the shopping costs of the future much less than what any store sees today.
AI can create a "personal shopper assistant" that can give the illusion of a real person helping to pick out things such as fresh fruit and vegetables that are not damaged/rotting, etc. to whatever preferences each user has.
The push to use this technology will then create a new sect of "luddites" that do not want to belong to the tracking society, and a few underground economies will spring up - most likely using outlawed cash as the currencies.
The governments won't like this, and will continue to confiscate and destroy all the old bills, to force everyone toward the digital tracking currencies.
Hold out industries - requiring personnel to be onsite for actual production - such as mining, manufacturing, refining, etc, will probably be where the luddites will emerge. A basement dweller doesn't really care if the government tracks him if he never goes anywhere.
Trades will also play an important role, as many of these tradesmen can/will act as go-betweens for black markets, due to the natural tendency of them to enter homes and other places, meeting lots of people.
Phones - or whatever comes next - will constantly be listening for any hint of subversion, and adjust the social credit scores appropriately.
Guess that got off into a very long tangent LOL.
Digital currency is coming - probably in smaller countries first, but then a global one to track everyone.
I appreciate the reply, and I think you are probably correct. The writing is on the wall at this point; we may very well be wrong in the minute details, but it is very unlikely we're wrong in the broad strokes.
The whole free market economy is fucked up for the following reasons!
1) the productive people's wages are being spent by the unproductive people. By making middle men (unproductive) jobs higher paid and then taxing the worker to pay slobs and sluts.
The factory worker is the most productive and lowest paid. That flips economics on its head.
2) the currencies are then printed into other even less productive people's pockets who call themselves elite bankers.
Both of these problems are caused by having psychopaths running and structuring everything to suit their parasitic behaviour.
The solution isn't a new currency. It's removing the psychopaths from power and allowing the free market to pay real money to the real producers who then get to keep it.
Factory workers would get paid much more.
Lawyer's, bankers, accountants, doctors and traders would get much less and would have to provide a service worth paying for.
We have the productive economy being plundered by the parasitic economy at present. And the parasites won't stop until the host is dead.
I beg to differ. Currency that is created from nothing and born by creating inherent debt can not be resolved. We don't need currency at all. We need money, which I think, BEAMRG is proposing. A bill, not a note, based on a unit of work, which represents real value, like a bill that represent a unit of gold or silver.
The best way its ever worked is to build the middle class who support the fuck ups at the bottom and the top. You have to control and manage the fuck ups at the bottom and the top, not the middle class. Those people have to be free agents. They can support a limited amount of fuck ups for their own soul and gratification. The fucks grew too big and fat feeding off off them and tried to control them.
[ + ] Irelandlost
[ - ] Irelandlost -1 points 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 07:18:15 ago (+0/-1)
[ + ] BlueEyedAngloMasterRaceGod
[ - ] BlueEyedAngloMasterRaceGod [op] 0 points 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 07:25:16 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 02:21:18 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] giantprick
[ - ] giantprick 1 point 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 04:47:12 ago (+1/-0)
So it's a hippie fuckfest?
[ + ] Deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 05:14:02 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] giantprick
[ - ] giantprick 0 points 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 05:43:30 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] observation1
[ - ] observation1 0 points 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 02:22:28 ago (+0/-0)
I think a better currency would be coupons to spend locally. Kind of like spend 2 ounces of silver to get $60 of local certificates to use at participating locations.
It keeps your money local and, you can exchange it back for silver. And the more people use it, the more it decouples from the dollar and you have a precious metal backed currency.
[ + ] localsal
[ - ] localsal 0 points 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 08:12:02 ago (+0/-0)
With globalization and outsourcing, it is impossible for a local community to completely escape the need for a "standard" currency to exist - think buying fuel or shipping goods in and out.
Everyone in the supply chain has to agree upon the currency being used, and accept the value of it.
In the game "Fallout New Vegas", as one example, the main currency is "caps" but NCR and Legion money also appears - but at some different value than caps.
Canada actually had (has?) a side currency called Canadian Tire Dollars - which worked only within a set ecosystem, but one that so many people used that it became workable.
Any local group creating their own currency would automatically be forced to lower the value of it when dealing with the outside world, due to the inconvenience of the receiving end not having a mechanism to barter with it.
Imagine living in an apartment and a client trying to pay you with a cow... If the cow is worth $500 on the market, would you accept the cow at $500 value? or would you deduct the transport, feeding or butchering costs from the transaction? (assuming the cow wasn't the intended gain to begin with)
For a community based currency, the inconvenience of an outsider having to travel to that community to use the currency makes it worth less. And everyone needs outsider goods and services - fuel, internet, shipping, etc.
[ + ] Master_Foo
[ - ] Master_Foo 0 points 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 02:51:11 ago (+0/-0)
Problem is, you can't standardize a unit of labor. Incentive is different for each person. Try getting a $5 blowjob from a low class hooker and a high class hooker. See what the difference is. They are both "unskilled labor under standard conditions" but you'll only get the $5 blowjob from the low class hooker because incentive structures are different.
That's why incentive must be the fundamental unit of value, not labor.
[ + ] BlueEyedAngloMasterRaceGod
[ - ] BlueEyedAngloMasterRaceGod [op] 1 point 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 03:14:35 ago (+1/-0)
if a basic labor job presently pays $10 an hour, then that becomes 1 SLU. your high class hooker can charge any amount of SLU she wishes. the idea is that 1 SLU will never change to incur inflation etc. the amount of SLU printed is based on population size.
[ + ] localsal
[ - ] localsal 0 points 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 06:11:33 ago (+0/-0)
Who (or (((who))) LOL) will set the exchange rate? This is the basis of every question on this post.
[ + ] BlueEyedAngloMasterRaceGod
[ - ] BlueEyedAngloMasterRaceGod [op] 0 points 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 06:20:37 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] localsal
[ - ] localsal 0 points 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 06:26:36 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] giantprick
[ - ] giantprick 0 points 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 04:48:20 ago (+0/-0)
Are you paid 5% of him? The same?
No matter what it won't be fair
[ + ] TheViciousMrPim
[ - ] TheViciousMrPim 0 points 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 05:29:16 ago (+0/-0)
Then we run into the question of quality. Two carpenters are going to have different skill levels. So their hours aren't of the same value.
The bankers will fuck us no matter the coin.
[ + ] giantprick
[ - ] giantprick 0 points 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 05:45:33 ago (+0/-0)
Sounds like a lot of work. Maybe at the time of labor we could issue some sort of credit or token to signify just how much was done. we could give this token to the laborer and they could in turn give it to another laborer. That way we skip all the paperwork and verification
How's that sound?
[ + ] BlueEyedAngloMasterRaceGod
[ - ] BlueEyedAngloMasterRaceGod [op] 0 points 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 06:01:46 ago (+0/-0)
but the avg pay for a crap starting job of unskilled labor will remain forever at an avg across the market at 1SLU. if the currency is based on this, it won't change like our current one does, which is why an avg mcdonalds worker who used to be worth $3 an hr is now $10.
the nazis did something very similar, backing certificates based on work, although it's difficult to understand exactly how it worked: https://natsoc.com/t/debt-free-reich-labour-treasury-certificates/1668
[ + ] localsal
[ - ] localsal 0 points 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 08:01:07 ago (+0/-0)
The difference being the condition of the world today.
Back in the 1930s most peoples were just beginning to industrialize on a grand scale - having experienced a huge percentage shift from rural to urban society (although still mostly rural for most countries). The manufacturing was just starting to industrialize - and was all local. This gave governments a complete view of the economy of their country.
Yes, there was trade between countries, but nobody was so "specialized" that trade was required to acquire goods for the citizens. If Germany needed something that could be imported from England, a local German industry could/would attempt to meet that need.
In today's world, there is so much outsourcing and kikery that the opposite happens.
Say the US produces a widget that people need and it costs 1 SLU to produce locally.
Walmart will import it for way less than that. Which item will the majority purchase? Therefore the SLU will be a standard by which people will be reduced to accepting lower and lower wages to meet global production abilities.
The corporations of today have no loyalty toward country or employees - whereas the National Socialists prided themselves on helping their fellow countrymen.
Different times, and most likely not reproducible in a global marketplace. (especially a kiked one)
[ + ] giantprick
[ - ] giantprick 0 points 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 17:20:10 ago (+0/-0)
That's (one thing) money does - give a contract that you can exchange labor in one place for labor or goods in another.
That's what I'm saying, your SLU is going to be wildly different from place to place because there's no high level authenticator. Tokens solve this problem (negotiations only have to happen upfront at the transaction) and without them your SLUs become unstable, unpredictable and unusable.
[ + ] RecycledElectrons
[ - ] RecycledElectrons 0 points 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 18:11:31 ago (+0/-0)
It was called "Hitler's economic miracle."
[ + ] veridic
[ - ] veridic 0 points 3.0 yearsMay 14, 2022 14:53:41 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] CPU
[ - ] CPU 1 point 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 02:03:22 ago (+1/-0)
If there is one thing a kike cannot do, it is physical labor.
[ + ] localsal
[ - ] localsal 1 point 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 06:24:33 ago (+1/-0)
This is a "chicken or egg" problem - what happened first? the exchange rate or the currency?
"Currency" as a concept emerged because the barter system was becoming a) untenable and b) less and less "person to person" and more of a marketplace.
Bringing a cow to market to trade for anything didn't help anyone anymore - who wants to accept and store a cow, hoping that someone else will show up with something to trade for said cow that both parties agreed upon?
Hence, currency was born - becoming a much more convenient form of storage, while also a basis by which every trade could be made using the "supply vs demand" or "value" proposition.
There was a discussion a while ago about using " one kwh of electricity" as the standard basis of value.
The same thing happened there - what is the exchange rate? who sets it?
For example - what is the value in SLU of one carrot? Of one gallon of water?
Someone dying of thirst would probably give 100 SLU for one gallon, while someone else living with an overflowing well would probably only get 0.1 SLU for that same gallon.
The history of technology and advancements is very interesting. The more "leisure" time men have, the more thoughts and ideas emerge - producing progress.
Is an hour of thinking that will save 1000 SLUs worth of labor, worth that 1000 SLUs? Or is only manual "toiling" for production worth an SLU?
Who sets the value?
Is finding an investment that will produce 1million SLUs still something that can happen?
No currency system "sets" value - it only represents a means to trade that value. All transactions are really just "barters", but use currency out of convenience.
Changing the type of currency system does nothing to set the value of any item.
[ + ] BlueEyedAngloMasterRaceGod
[ - ] BlueEyedAngloMasterRaceGod [op] 0 points 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 06:34:01 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] localsal
[ - ] localsal 0 points 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 06:50:06 ago (+0/-0)
And any "currency" is just a means to facilitate a transaction that everyone agrees upon.
Gold was a very good standard of trade for a long time for many reasons
1) it was rare. This is important for any currency - there has to be trust in it. Any currency that can "flood the market" or could be produced easily - either legitimately or illegitimately - can lower the trust.
Bitcoin has the advantage that there is a finite end to the production/mining. This means no counterfeits.
Side note: one of my beefs with "blockchain everything" is that in order to create new items in the blockchain, there has to be a mechanism for adding them - which opens the door for counterfeiting, etc.
2) everyone agreed upon the value of a unit of gold, typically by weight. This allowed trustworthy transactions - until the unseemly peoples started to cheat the system, etc.
3) it has to be convenient. carrying around 200lbs of gold to buy a car is not very fun. Even pocket change can become inconvenient nowdays when everything costs more than $1, etc.
The price is definitely set by the market - but only when the currency is well established and trusted.
Setting prices requires a large pool of people to be involved. This was relatively easy when urban settings were not the norm and the people all knew each other. This is when the doctor could be paid with a couple of chickens. The doc could live off the chickens for a few days - making the transaction beneficial.
As urbanization occurred, as well as more items at the market (luxuries and conveniences) then the market had to adapt to a better pricing scheme.
Currency and prices are definitely related, but vastly different in what they do. Currency is the means to a trade, but price is the effect of the trade. Just like the road is the escape for a bank robber, but the bank robbery is the actual effect. If a bank robber had a helicopter or flying car, the road would not be necessary, but the bank robbery would still occur.
[ + ] we_kill_creativity
[ - ] we_kill_creativity 0 points 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 06:37:48 ago (+0/-0)
You seem well thought out regarding this. Do you have an idea what that currency could be?
[ + ] localsal
[ - ] localsal 1 point 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 07:13:10 ago (+1/-0)*
Currency wasn't a problem when it was a physical - and trustworthy - entity. Walk into a store with cash and the exchange was simple.
As the world progressed, the same issues with cash happened that drove gold from the marketplaces - it became too unwieldy to walk into a car dealership with a huge wad of cash.
Thus the "check" and "credit" systems were developed.
Oh, but now that actual cash can be removed from the transaction by other tokens, the only reason for having a "dollar" is to keep things equal.
In order to establish a currency, there has to be a few very important traits:
1) scarcity/finite supply - if something is common or can be commonly made/faked, then that isn't a good currency
2) trust - something that can be verified easily, like those pens that mark large US bills, or the holograms, etc on others.
3) convenience - this is where bitcoin fails. Yes, it is easy to set up a trade using bitcoin, but there is a delay in the transaction, and the costs of each transaction are astronomical for small things. Unless someone can pop into a store with bitcoin and buy a gallon of milk for only a small percentage fee (credit cards are in the 2% range, which is still high, but people have accepted it) then bitcoin will not become an everyday currency.
The reason the one-world currency will appear and take over is because it will meet these three criteria, and everyone will (possibly reluctantly) adopt it.
The biggest problem with any new currency is actually "globalization" and "outsourcing".
An example: Suppose a small town - 1000 people or so - want to totally become self sufficient. They band together and pool their skills (for the sake of argument, everyone has a usable skill without excessive overlap) and develop a bartering system.
This community - think Amish in the US - can thrive to some extent.
What if the community wants to have internet? How does their "bartering" pay the ISP?
How does the community pay for fuel? Probably not by drilling or refining within their community. Luxuries are the problem. We all want them, and every luxury - and most necessities actually - cannot be produced ourselves.
This means any community that interacts will require some external currency - which also means that they will require someone/something as a "go between" between the outside world and themselves.
The "go between" is a vital mechanism in a black market as well. Someone that is willing to put themselves at risk of getting caught to bring legitimate goods to an underground scene. The lack of a "go between" just means that there is zero chance of purchasing legitimate needs inside that community. Stealing is obviously an option, but that incurs huge risk - not just for the robber, but for the entire community - and should be avoided.
As to the answer to your question: the best currency is one that is produced by a trusted source - and no government meets that requirement anymore. The US printed so many dollars in the last several years that who knows how many fake dollars have also been printed.
The ideas of currency based on labor or energy, etc, are all socialism in waiting. Edit: Because labor and energy are not finite - and cannot be viewed as created by a trusted source.
The promise of a bitcoin currency, if the delays and transaction costs can be reduced to near zero, would be revolutionary - but that will not happen due to the costs associated with mining and blockchain.
A global digital currency will happen - most likely by force - but that will not destroy the idea of a rebel currency still remaining.
Ironically, when the global digital currency is forced up humanity, the best currency will be cash - in any form. Dollar bills will become a standard once the governments stop printing them. With nobody mass producing fiat dollar bills, the supply is now finite - and barring counterfeiting - the old dollars now meet all 3 requirements for a usable currency.
[ + ] CHIRO
[ - ] CHIRO 0 points 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 09:17:25 ago (+0/-0)
Of course, this is hypothetical. I just think if you consider several trends simultaneously, from drone delivery, to the push for short-range electric vehicles and transportation-as-a-service, to digital transactions and incentives to 'stay put', then a 1984-esque vision of the future starts to materialize. I'm wondering if a digital currency would work if and only if those conditions were met. Hence, maybe the conditions will be forced so as to make digital currency feasible (if the world isn't convenient for it, make the world different).
[ + ] localsal
[ - ] localsal 1 point 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 11:55:46 ago (+1/-0)
The masses will become sedentary, living their "comfortable" lives day by day, ordering the necessities for delivery - much like the space fattards in Wall-E. These people will have zero problem with the WEF and others constantly tracking them and controlling their salary and spending.
The context of this post seems to be as an alternative to what the current and future currency systems will require, such as tracking and ultimately controlling who can buy what a la social credit scores.
There may be a few brick and mortar stores that are (((allowed))) to operate, just for the older people to continue to relive memories or to have the illusion of control over different foods.
I do imagine shopping in a brick and mortar store will become extinct for the most part, and maybe soon. The niggers with their daytime looting gangs, and other economic factors will make walmart, target, grocery stores, etc rethinking their expenses and losses. Stores will either have to be retrofitted for access control and stronger doors/windows, at high cost, or just close down and move inventory to a warehouse setting.
A good idea for a budding entrepreneur programmer would be to design a nice digital interface that acts much like a "pushing a cart down the aisle" shopping experience. Instead of doing a text based search as on amazon, recreate the aisle shopping experience, with items sorted by category, and brands, etc, with a much more robust search or item listing, with familiar locations on shelves where people normally see their favorite items. Think google maps, only interactive and for a store.
Couple this with the new warehouses full of product that only the "fulfillment shoppers" need to traverse (and are allowed in with security very much like a prison) - along with robotic picking/conveyor belt systems, and a single walmart size store of today can be the hub for maybe 500,000 people to get everything they need. Local delivery will also improve cost efficiency, and mathematically derived delivery routes will make the shopping costs of the future much less than what any store sees today.
AI can create a "personal shopper assistant" that can give the illusion of a real person helping to pick out things such as fresh fruit and vegetables that are not damaged/rotting, etc. to whatever preferences each user has.
The push to use this technology will then create a new sect of "luddites" that do not want to belong to the tracking society, and a few underground economies will spring up - most likely using outlawed cash as the currencies.
The governments won't like this, and will continue to confiscate and destroy all the old bills, to force everyone toward the digital tracking currencies.
Hold out industries - requiring personnel to be onsite for actual production - such as mining, manufacturing, refining, etc, will probably be where the luddites will emerge. A basement dweller doesn't really care if the government tracks him if he never goes anywhere.
Trades will also play an important role, as many of these tradesmen can/will act as go-betweens for black markets, due to the natural tendency of them to enter homes and other places, meeting lots of people.
Phones - or whatever comes next - will constantly be listening for any hint of subversion, and adjust the social credit scores appropriately.
Guess that got off into a very long tangent LOL.
Digital currency is coming - probably in smaller countries first, but then a global one to track everyone.
[ + ] CHIRO
[ - ] CHIRO 0 points 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 12:11:26 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] GeneralDisarray
[ - ] GeneralDisarray 4 points 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 03:22:34 ago (+4/-0)
1) the productive people's wages are being spent by the unproductive people. By making middle men (unproductive) jobs higher paid and then taxing the worker to pay slobs and sluts.
The factory worker is the most productive and lowest paid. That flips economics on its head.
2) the currencies are then printed into other even less productive people's pockets who call themselves elite bankers.
Both of these problems are caused by having psychopaths running and structuring everything to suit their parasitic behaviour.
The solution isn't a new currency. It's removing the psychopaths from power and allowing the free market to pay real money to the real producers who then get to keep it.
Factory workers would get paid much more.
Lawyer's, bankers, accountants, doctors and traders would get much less and would have to provide a service worth paying for.
We have the productive economy being plundered by the parasitic economy at present. And the parasites won't stop until the host is dead.
[ + ] Reawakened
[ - ] Reawakened 2 points 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 04:13:37 ago (+2/-0)
I beg to differ. Currency that is created from nothing and born by creating inherent debt can not be resolved. We don't need currency at all. We need money, which I think, BEAMRG is proposing. A bill, not a note, based on a unit of work, which represents real value, like a bill that represent a unit of gold or silver.
[ + ] MichaelStewart
[ - ] MichaelStewart 0 points 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 07:43:28 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] TheYiddler
[ - ] TheYiddler 1 point 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 06:56:05 ago (+1/-0)
You need something other than capitalism.
[ + ] yesiknow
[ - ] yesiknow 0 points 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 06:50:30 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Youdgetfuckedfaggot
[ - ] Youdgetfuckedfaggot 0 points 3.0 yearsMay 13, 2022 14:19:12 ago (+0/-0)