Serf didn't own land. They were tied to the lords land a needed his approval to move or leave or travel, and worked 2 days a week for the lord. They weren't allowed to do anything without authorization including marriage. They couldn't work on Sunday, owed 2 days a week labor for the lord, so had 4 days to produce whatever they could for themselves.
It's not as bad as Hollywood makes it out but don't for a second think it wasn't a form of slavery. Your children were owned by the lord who owned the land you were bound to.
When I worked in an office my effort was commiserurate with what I was getting paid. If they promoted someone less experienced, stupider or lazy over me I would do very little. I haven't worked in an office since this whole push for diversity was just beginning but I imagine it would be a nightmare to work there now. I got fired from about as many jobs as I walked out on.
By definition serfs did not own land. They had hereditory duties to work a certain piece of land (or a particular profession) and faced serious penalties for failing in that duty or trying to escape it.
Most people were taught that this social structure was something that happened after the roman empire collapsed and the barbarians took over, in fact it was a structure created by the empire. The empire began paying it's expenses by inflating the money supply. They minted mountains of trash coins which regular people were required to accept at face value ie. pretending a shitty piece of theoretically silver but actually mostly lead was worth a 20th of it's weight in gold. but taxes couldn't be paid back using the same coins at face value, they had to be paid in actual gold.
No one outside the imperial system had gold so eventually an arrangement was worked out where they had to pay their taxes "in kind" ie. through goods and services. Shoemakers paid in shoes, peasants paid in grain and bakers paid in bread. Above them was a politically connected citizen with the political connections necessary to make his tax burdens go away by supplying these goods to the army. Citizens who weren't connected enough, or couldn't extract enough resources, had to sell themselves into slavery and become servii.
One result of this was that servii who were deemed to work a taxable trade would try to leave for a less burdened one, so eventually they decided that trades were for life and hereditory. You and your sons were bound to whatever you did in perpetuity.
When the barbarians invaded they weren't considered a disaster, the locals welcomed them because they were usually less horrible than having an imperial master. They stepped right into the boots of the former Roman planters and took over the system. And that's how western europe ended up with a german aristocracy ruling over an underclass of servii (serfs).
No problem. It really worries me when I see people idolising the roman empire, it really was the USSR of it's time. It was the opposite of the ethno-nationalist stronghold most goats want.
Ahistorical analysis is very common. People talk about events and systems as if they spawned out of the ether.
That does happen sometimes, paradigm shifts can happen, but in general most people are sheep. They don't really want things to radically change, they want them to stay the same. So successful regime changes don't actually change much of day to day life. Especially the parts emphasising legitimate authority. When the barbarians moved in they either had themselves crowned emperor or kept a puppet emperor around for public events. Adopting roman christianity also helped since it's primary message was "obey."
horse shit. the average lifespan for humans has been the same throughout recorded history. the reason the average life expectancy numbers are low is because a ton of kids died within the first two years and a lot of people died from diseases or injuries. People who survived infancy, didn't get a sudden typhoid fever, and didn't fall down a copper mine invariably lived to the same ages people do now.
read literally the first comment on that post. then look up the age of people in ancient Greece, which is far prior to the medieval period. now question the assumption that kings and such had a better life. etc etc.
Life expectancy is very hard to document in many eras.
In the cases where documentation is used to calculate the expectancy, there is a lot of child death that drags the whole number downward. And I mean, a lot. Like women have 10-12 kids and only 4 make it to adulthood, etc.
If someone made it to the age of 20+, typically they lived to be a lot older than the life expectancy. Much like the average age of covid deaths is way higher than the typical life expectancy. There are a ton of old people living today too.
[ + ] ButtToucha9000
[ - ] ButtToucha9000 8 points 2.4 yearsJan 6, 2022 14:59:34 ago (+9/-1)
It's not as bad as Hollywood makes it out but don't for a second think it wasn't a form of slavery. Your children were owned by the lord who owned the land you were bound to.
[ + ] NeoNazirite
[ - ] NeoNazirite 0 points 2.4 yearsJan 6, 2022 18:40:43 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] ButtToucha9000
[ - ] ButtToucha9000 2 points 2.4 yearsJan 7, 2022 01:06:07 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] CPU
[ - ] CPU 7 points 2.4 yearsJan 6, 2022 14:18:31 ago (+7/-0)
[ + ] natehiggers
[ - ] natehiggers 7 points 2.4 yearsJan 6, 2022 14:20:11 ago (+7/-0)
[ + ] JudyStroyer
[ - ] JudyStroyer 1 point 2.4 yearsJan 6, 2022 22:42:37 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] NuckFiggers
[ - ] NuckFiggers 2 points 2.4 yearsJan 6, 2022 17:32:24 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] Broc_Liath
[ - ] Broc_Liath 2 points 2.4 yearsJan 6, 2022 15:27:12 ago (+2/-0)
Most people were taught that this social structure was something that happened after the roman empire collapsed and the barbarians took over, in fact it was a structure created by the empire. The empire began paying it's expenses by inflating the money supply. They minted mountains of trash coins which regular people were required to accept at face value ie. pretending a shitty piece of theoretically silver but actually mostly lead was worth a 20th of it's weight in gold. but taxes couldn't be paid back using the same coins at face value, they had to be paid in actual gold.
No one outside the imperial system had gold so eventually an arrangement was worked out where they had to pay their taxes "in kind" ie. through goods and services. Shoemakers paid in shoes, peasants paid in grain and bakers paid in bread. Above them was a politically connected citizen with the political connections necessary to make his tax burdens go away by supplying these goods to the army. Citizens who weren't connected enough, or couldn't extract enough resources, had to sell themselves into slavery and become servii.
One result of this was that servii who were deemed to work a taxable trade would try to leave for a less burdened one, so eventually they decided that trades were for life and hereditory. You and your sons were bound to whatever you did in perpetuity.
When the barbarians invaded they weren't considered a disaster, the locals welcomed them because they were usually less horrible than having an imperial master. They stepped right into the boots of the former Roman planters and took over the system. And that's how western europe ended up with a german aristocracy ruling over an underclass of servii (serfs).
[ + ] deleted
[ - ] deleted 2 points 2.4 yearsJan 6, 2022 17:11:44 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] Broc_Liath
[ - ] Broc_Liath 0 points 2.4 yearsJan 6, 2022 17:36:42 ago (+0/-0)
No problem. It really worries me when I see people idolising the roman empire, it really was the USSR of it's time. It was the opposite of the ethno-nationalist stronghold most goats want.
That does happen sometimes, paradigm shifts can happen, but in general most people are sheep. They don't really want things to radically change, they want them to stay the same. So successful regime changes don't actually change much of day to day life. Especially the parts emphasising legitimate authority. When the barbarians moved in they either had themselves crowned emperor or kept a puppet emperor around for public events. Adopting roman christianity also helped since it's primary message was "obey."
[ + ] deleted
[ - ] deleted 2 points 2.4 yearsJan 6, 2022 19:42:13 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] deleted
[ - ] deleted 1 point 2.4 yearsJan 7, 2022 12:32:18 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Shotinthedark
[ - ] Shotinthedark 2 points 2.4 yearsJan 6, 2022 15:19:24 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] Empire_of_the_Mind
[ - ] Empire_of_the_Mind 1 point 2.4 yearsJan 6, 2022 23:20:06 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Shotinthedark
[ - ] Shotinthedark 0 points 2.3 yearsJan 10, 2022 14:42:12 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Empire_of_the_Mind
[ - ] Empire_of_the_Mind 0 points 2.3 yearsJan 10, 2022 20:47:00 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Shotinthedark
[ - ] Shotinthedark 0 points 2.3 yearsJan 11, 2022 15:36:20 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] localsal
[ - ] localsal 0 points 2.4 yearsJan 6, 2022 17:52:00 ago (+0/-0)
In the cases where documentation is used to calculate the expectancy, there is a lot of child death that drags the whole number downward. And I mean, a lot. Like women have 10-12 kids and only 4 make it to adulthood, etc.
If someone made it to the age of 20+, typically they lived to be a lot older than the life expectancy. Much like the average age of covid deaths is way higher than the typical life expectancy. There are a ton of old people living today too.
[ + ] youregay
[ - ] youregay 0 points 2.4 yearsJan 6, 2022 22:03:33 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] thebearfromstartrack4
[ - ] thebearfromstartrack4 0 points 2.4 yearsJan 6, 2022 19:35:07 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ]deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 2.4 yearsJan 6, 2022 14:22:53 ago (+1/-1)
[ + ] ModernGuilt
[ - ] ModernGuilt -2 points 2.4 yearsJan 6, 2022 14:39:32 ago (+1/-3)
[ + ] deleted
[ - ] deleted 2 points 2.4 yearsJan 6, 2022 17:12:58 ago (+2/-0)