I made a thread about this subject where I thoroughly go through that the Muslim invasion of the Visigothic Kingdom was actually a jewish invasion. And the motive there is Visigothic resistance against jewish power and influence and revenge for said resistance. There is indications that the amount of jews were larger than the Muslim ones in the Muslim army and that the commander of the Muslim army might have been a crypto;
Thanks for the informative post. I knew they were instrumental in the take-over and that a key issue was to do with Jewish ownership or trading of christian slaves. I was fuzzy on the details. They called it the golden age of the jewery.
Let's invite the jews in, I'm sure we can turn them into good christians
Ok, they want some special rules so they can lend money and bite off their kids' foreskins, but they'll turn christian any day now
Oh shit, they just let the moors in wtf?
Ok, we barely got our country back and half the population are semetic now. We should probably deal with the jews. "Hey jews! You have to either nominally say you're christian or go live in our colonies ok!"
* Why are all our colonies breaking away? I don't get it.
I think everyone here is missing a very important point in this. The failure of the Visigoths was a failure of nationalism. The Visigoths were an Arian Christian, Germanic, ruling class over a mix of former Roman, (not Roman Catholic in that sense) Traditional Christian, Mud people. If the superior Visigoths had replaced the indigenous population, the resident foreigners and connivers (jews) would have had no power. The problem was; while superior, they were few in number, ad so, didn't replace, they chose to rule over a foreign race. In other words, to form a diverse country. This was a very fatal error. After about 100 years, the Visigoths (for political reasons) were marrying into this multi cultural multicultural landscape.
And (very important) they adopted the Roman Legal system to better rule their new found subjects (not a nation, a country).
over a mix of former Roman, (not Roman Catholic in that sense) Traditional Christian, Mud people.
Mud people? At that time Spain was populated by romans (actual romans, not mestizos) and celt-iberians. The visigoths took over when the roman empire collapsed under the weight of central planning. It was essentially 1990s USSR. The only way the visigoths were superior was in that they lived too far north to have been invaded by rome. Other than that they were genetically and culturally very closely related to their spanish subjects.
The king begged the bishops to help him in expelling the jews. They refused and it was the end of his kingdom. Christianity wasn't their target, it was their vector of infection.
Actually it seems that archbishop Julian of Toledo was leading the charge and that Erwig (Euric) was a close political ally. Article says he led the council and he wrote a treatise condemning jewish ownership of christian slaves. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_of_Toledo
[ - ] Broc_Liath 1 point 2.7 yearsAug 20, 2021 09:07:58 ago (+2/-1)*
Was he? Fair enough. Either way, christians occasionally turning anti-jew was at best solving the problems they had created. The jews had no privileged position in europe prior to christianity.
Edit:
At Erwig's request, in 686, he wrote De Comprobatione Aetatis Sextae Contra Judaeos, a work dealing with messianic prophesies of the Bible in a way intended to convert the Jews.
Oh there we go knew it'd be in there somewhere. Converting jews was the perennial christian project, it's the reason jews were allowed to flood europe in such huge numbers and were given all kinds of special dispensations. The logic is that they're already abrahamic so christianity is a short step, after all jesus was a jew. Then eventually the jews get too powerful and the christians either kick them out or get overrun. Rinse repeat.
Gosh I thought you were christian but it seems not from the phantom exchange. I generally tip toe around christians to avoid excessive kerfuffles.
Yes, the spaniards failed to see the problem is genetic and not just cultural. They made the mistake during the reconquista too, thinking conversion would fix the revolutionary behavior they exhibit everywhere always. If you convert them to christianity they will just be parasitic christians. At different times they have worshipped Moloch and Set and Jesus and Karl Marx. It doesn’t matter.
Its an incorrect assumption on the part of christians that “our” morals are universal ones and that everyone is genetically capable of implementing them because of free will. IMO free will basically doesn’t exist, and obvsly lots of folks think its totally normal to be cannibals or marry 9 year olds. Economic strategies have a lot to do with the morals that various societies evolve to follow.
But I do think christianity can become more nationalistic in certain circumstances, just like communism. Isolationism seem to do the trick. And a lack of jews of course. Like I think early christianity was very universalist but then it became very judgey and not very tolerant and also very balkanized. Also the paradox of the commie eastern bloc becoming more based than the west.
It's funny, when I was in school I was briefly introduced to the concept of jewish expulsions and it was implied it was only ever done to evade debt. The truth is so much farther from the fiction I used to be taught.
Its an incorrect assumption on the part of christians that “our” morals are universal ones and that everyone is genetically capable of implementing them because of free will. IMO free will basically doesn’t exist, and obvsly lots of folks think its totally normal to be cannibals or marry 9 year olds. Economic strategies have a lot to do with the morals that various societies evolve to follow.
Yeah, it's suicidally universalist. Unfortunately the enlightenment also picked up a lot of those ideas and kept them going in a secular context. Hence all the colonialism in the 19th century. They genuinely thought Africa was going to turn into a modern paradise once the natives got their hands on steam age tech.
But I do think christianity can become more nationalistic in certain circumstances, just like communism. Isolationism seem to do the trick. And a lack of jews of course. Like I think early christianity was very universalist but then it became very judgey and not very tolerant and also very balkanized. Also the paradox of the commie eastern bloc becoming more based than the west.
It's not so much that christianity can become nationalistic as it can sometimes be adopted by nationalistic cultures. The nationalism is already there, the christianity just gets painted over the top and the boars and eagles get replaced with crosses.
The trouble is that in the long run the christians will have to choose between nationalism and universalism, and the DNA of their religion is universalist.
Ive been an atheist a long time since I became an atheist. But there’s still a sentimental attachment to christianity. Its been hard to accept that the christian revolution was a jewish takeover like this one. But they ply religion. It is one of their superpowers. Im not even sure the founding population is semitic. It occurs to me they could have been sumerian or something. I believe they were priests before they were anything else.
I don't think it was a jewish takeover as such, they weren't that organised back then, they were still in guerilla warfare mode. I think it was more like something they realised very quickly they could exploit so they did.
The christian revolution itself was fuelled more by the breakdown of the roman republic. The decaying social fabric opened up the cities to a lot of subversive influence and the most zealous cult dominated. Same thing happening now with marxism.
Contradiction in terms. Christianity is a universalist religion. Even when a nationalist version exists, given a few generations they inevitably degrade into universal brotherhood and donating to black breeding programs.
If you deny this, then the world's problems start, and will die, with you.
If christianity actually produced that kind of uncompromising culture then we wouldn't be in this mess. Why tf would you want europe to continue to be cucked by a religion that promotes tolerance and globalism?
Yes goy! It is the Christians that are the problem!
Jews are the problem, christianity is one of their tools.
You will die for your incorrect beliefs. Not only are you a traitor, you are a subversive rat that never should have been born. You've no right to exist.
Nothing new. White christians have been killing their fellow whites for "incorrect beliefs" for centuries. The result has not been a whiter europe.
[ + ] TheGreatWhiteHope
[ - ] TheGreatWhiteHope 8 points 2.7 yearsAug 19, 2021 17:26:51 ago (+8/-0)
It's ok. We're prepared for this.
We have plenty of provisions and the wall is well fortified and-
Mordechai what are you doing? Get away from the gate. Why would you-
Oh no! Oh nononononononono
[ + ] Garrett
[ - ] Garrett 6 points 2.7 yearsAug 19, 2021 21:11:33 ago (+6/-0)*
https://archive.ph/1z2au
[ + ] Broc_Liath
[ - ] Broc_Liath 0 points 2.7 yearsAug 20, 2021 09:18:23 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 2 points 2.7 yearsAug 19, 2021 21:19:47 ago (+2/-0)
Aka Erwig.
Thanks for the informative post. I knew they were instrumental in the take-over and that a key issue was to do with Jewish ownership or trading of christian slaves. I was fuzzy on the details. They called it the golden age of the jewery.
[ + ] account deleted by user
[ - ] account deleted by user 2 points 2.7 yearsAug 19, 2021 20:35:02 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] Broc_Liath
[ - ] Broc_Liath 3 points 2.7 yearsAug 20, 2021 09:17:48 ago (+3/-0)
Ok, they want some special rules so they can lend money and bite off their kids' foreskins, but they'll turn christian any day now
Oh shit, they just let the moors in wtf?
Ok, we barely got our country back and half the population are semetic now. We should probably deal with the jews. "Hey jews! You have to either nominally say you're christian or go live in our colonies ok!"
* Why are all our colonies breaking away? I don't get it.
[ + ] SturmUndTrinker
[ - ] SturmUndTrinker 1 point 2.7 yearsAug 19, 2021 22:39:24 ago (+1/-0)
And (very important) they adopted the Roman Legal system to better rule their new found subjects (not a nation, a country).
(ref. Charles Oman).
[ + ] Broc_Liath
[ - ] Broc_Liath 0 points 2.7 yearsAug 20, 2021 16:46:34 ago (+0/-0)
Mud people? At that time Spain was populated by romans (actual romans, not mestizos) and celt-iberians. The visigoths took over when the roman empire collapsed under the weight of central planning. It was essentially 1990s USSR. The only way the visigoths were superior was in that they lived too far north to have been invaded by rome. Other than that they were genetically and culturally very closely related to their spanish subjects.
[ + ] account deleted by user
[ - ] account deleted by user 1 point 2.7 yearsAug 19, 2021 18:39:15 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Broc_Liath
[ - ] Broc_Liath 4 points 2.7 yearsAug 19, 2021 20:27:28 ago (+5/-1)
Lmao. Reread the OP please.
The king begged the bishops to help him in expelling the jews. They refused and it was the end of his kingdom. Christianity wasn't their target, it was their vector of infection.
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 2.7 yearsAug 19, 2021 21:34:05 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Broc_Liath
[ - ] Broc_Liath 1 point 2.7 yearsAug 20, 2021 09:07:58 ago (+2/-1)*
Edit:
Oh there we go knew it'd be in there somewhere. Converting jews was the perennial christian project, it's the reason jews were allowed to flood europe in such huge numbers and were given all kinds of special dispensations. The logic is that they're already abrahamic so christianity is a short step, after all jesus was a jew. Then eventually the jews get too powerful and the christians either kick them out or get overrun. Rinse repeat.
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 1 point 2.7 yearsAug 20, 2021 13:05:04 ago (+1/-0)
Yes, the spaniards failed to see the problem is genetic and not just cultural. They made the mistake during the reconquista too, thinking conversion would fix the revolutionary behavior they exhibit everywhere always. If you convert them to christianity they will just be parasitic christians. At different times they have worshipped Moloch and Set and Jesus and Karl Marx. It doesn’t matter.
Its an incorrect assumption on the part of christians that “our” morals are universal ones and that everyone is genetically capable of implementing them because of free will. IMO free will basically doesn’t exist, and obvsly lots of folks think its totally normal to be cannibals or marry 9 year olds. Economic strategies have a lot to do with the morals that various societies evolve to follow.
But I do think christianity can become more nationalistic in certain circumstances, just like communism. Isolationism seem to do the trick. And a lack of jews of course. Like I think early christianity was very universalist but then it became very judgey and not very tolerant and also very balkanized. Also the paradox of the commie eastern bloc becoming more based than the west.
[ + ] Broc_Liath
[ - ] Broc_Liath 1 point 2.7 yearsAug 20, 2021 17:02:10 ago (+1/-0)
Yeah, it's suicidally universalist. Unfortunately the enlightenment also picked up a lot of those ideas and kept them going in a secular context. Hence all the colonialism in the 19th century. They genuinely thought Africa was going to turn into a modern paradise once the natives got their hands on steam age tech.
It's not so much that christianity can become nationalistic as it can sometimes be adopted by nationalistic cultures. The nationalism is already there, the christianity just gets painted over the top and the boars and eagles get replaced with crosses.
The trouble is that in the long run the christians will have to choose between nationalism and universalism, and the DNA of their religion is universalist.
[ + ] deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 2.7 yearsAug 20, 2021 17:46:05 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Broc_Liath
[ - ] Broc_Liath 0 points 2.7 yearsAug 20, 2021 17:48:25 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] PostWallHelena
[ - ] PostWallHelena 0 points 2.7 yearsAug 20, 2021 20:49:40 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Broc_Liath
[ - ] Broc_Liath 0 points 2.7 yearsAug 20, 2021 21:03:23 ago (+0/-0)
The christian revolution itself was fuelled more by the breakdown of the roman republic. The decaying social fabric opened up the cities to a lot of subversive influence and the most zealous cult dominated. Same thing happening now with marxism.
[ + ] deleted
[ - ] deleted -1 points 2.7 yearsAug 19, 2021 21:19:57 ago (+0/-1)
[ + ] Broc_Liath
[ - ] Broc_Liath 1 point 2.7 yearsAug 20, 2021 09:10:21 ago (+1/-0)
Contradiction in terms. Christianity is a universalist religion. Even when a nationalist version exists, given a few generations they inevitably degrade into universal brotherhood and donating to black breeding programs.
If christianity actually produced that kind of uncompromising culture then we wouldn't be in this mess. Why tf would you want europe to continue to be cucked by a religion that promotes tolerance and globalism?
[ + ] deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 2.7 yearsAug 20, 2021 11:10:15 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] MuhShugana
[ - ] MuhShugana 2 points 2.7 yearsAug 20, 2021 11:30:43 ago (+2/-0)
yes, goy. Kill the white who is against the jew! the fewer of those, the better I'm sure.
Maybe when you're the last purest man standing you can handle the hordes of mud monsters all by yourself.
[ + ] Broc_Liath
[ - ] Broc_Liath 1 point 2.7 yearsAug 20, 2021 16:43:17 ago (+1/-0)
Jews are the problem, christianity is one of their tools.
Nothing new. White christians have been killing their fellow whites for "incorrect beliefs" for centuries. The result has not been a whiter europe.
[ + ] deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 2.7 yearsAug 20, 2021 16:48:10 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Broc_Liath
[ - ] Broc_Liath 0 points 2.7 yearsAug 20, 2021 16:50:35 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Lordbananafist
[ - ] Lordbananafist 0 points 2.7 yearsAug 19, 2021 19:35:05 ago (+0/-0)