As @CHIRO has already explained, I ping him for his own interest, not for his "help." Although I wonder at your irritation at my use of pings. I am the one being downvoted here, not you.
No. BS. Jews were jewing long long before any messianic business. They just didn't have much of an opportunity to do it in europe. They had no ties there so their fuckery was restricted to the middle east.
All peoples were sinning grievously prior to Christ, and all peoples continue to do so after His Ascension. You can point to any number of cases in the Old Testament, or other historic documents, to reveal the iniquitous ways of the Jews. But this is by no means unique to them. What is under discussion is the specifically organized way in which the Jewish people effect certain revolutionary changes in history, and this manifestation is uniquely post-Christian. You can argue that this behaviour manifested only because Christianity enabled the consolidation of Jewish power in a way that the pre-Christian world never enabled. But this argument depends on the assertion that the Jews, by nature, sought to act in such a way even prior to Christ.
But this is contrary to the evidence. All you have in support of this argument is evidence of Jewish iniquity prior to Christ. But as I've said, all peoples were (and are) iniquitous. What you require is evidence of attempted Jewish consolidation and subversion of all peoples, everywhere. Not warlike behaviour, not conquest, but parasitic subversion via tribal tactics. But the Old Testament reveals that the Jews took pains to isolate themselves from pagan influence, and wanted little to do with other peoples once they had secured the land they thought was theirs. This is not equivalent to what we see today.
Rather than saying that some unevidenced revolutionary nature manifested itself more potently as a result of Christian tolerance, I argue that the merely human, common iniquity of the Jews translated to a unifying religious spirit of revolution only post Crucifixion, and signs of this spirit could be seen whether the Jews had power or not, in ways that it was not seen prior to this moment in history.
There is even a naturalistic explanation for why this is the case. Prior to Christ, the Jews still staked their hope in the Messiah. After Him, there were a few claimants, who failed miserably to satisfy, and so eventually they projected the awaited Messiah-ship upon the Jewish people themselves. Thus we have tikkun olam, this notion that the Jews are called by God to "heal the world" (thus act as revolutioanries against a certain order), a notion which we only see emerge, not in the days of the Old Testament, but in the post-Christian Talmudic era.
It is Providential that the Jews finally abandoned their awaiting their Messiah only after Christ came, and they (those who did not accept Him) rejected Him.
PS -2 points 2 years ago
As @CHIRO has already explained, I ping him for his own interest, not for his "help." Although I wonder at your irritation at my use of pings. I am the one being downvoted here, not you.
All peoples were sinning grievously prior to Christ, and all peoples continue to do so after His Ascension. You can point to any number of cases in the Old Testament, or other historic documents, to reveal the iniquitous ways of the Jews. But this is by no means unique to them. What is under discussion is the specifically organized way in which the Jewish people effect certain revolutionary changes in history, and this manifestation is uniquely post-Christian. You can argue that this behaviour manifested only because Christianity enabled the consolidation of Jewish power in a way that the pre-Christian world never enabled. But this argument depends on the assertion that the Jews, by nature, sought to act in such a way even prior to Christ.
But this is contrary to the evidence. All you have in support of this argument is evidence of Jewish iniquity prior to Christ. But as I've said, all peoples were (and are) iniquitous. What you require is evidence of attempted Jewish consolidation and subversion of all peoples, everywhere. Not warlike behaviour, not conquest, but parasitic subversion via tribal tactics. But the Old Testament reveals that the Jews took pains to isolate themselves from pagan influence, and wanted little to do with other peoples once they had secured the land they thought was theirs. This is not equivalent to what we see today.
Rather than saying that some unevidenced revolutionary nature manifested itself more potently as a result of Christian tolerance, I argue that the merely human, common iniquity of the Jews translated to a unifying religious spirit of revolution only post Crucifixion, and signs of this spirit could be seen whether the Jews had power or not, in ways that it was not seen prior to this moment in history.
There is even a naturalistic explanation for why this is the case. Prior to Christ, the Jews still staked their hope in the Messiah. After Him, there were a few claimants, who failed miserably to satisfy, and so eventually they projected the awaited Messiah-ship upon the Jewish people themselves. Thus we have tikkun olam, this notion that the Jews are called by God to "heal the world" (thus act as revolutioanries against a certain order), a notion which we only see emerge, not in the days of the Old Testament, but in the post-Christian Talmudic era.
It is Providential that the Jews finally abandoned their awaiting their Messiah only after Christ came, and they (those who did not accept Him) rejected Him.
@CHIRO