I'll start with the question I've seen most, "What's this about the train ignoring several detectors and what cause this derailment"
All indications are that this was caused by a "hot journal" failure, more on that later. Apparently a doorbell camera saw the glowing hot journal pass by sometime before the derailment. No I don't have that video. Consider it hearsay for now.
The detector people have been asking about is referring to a "hotbox" detector. It scans the train for heat anomalies. Heat anomalies normally happen when a car has a handbrake that has been left on (happens all the time) or if the cars airbrake system "sets up" because of a bad valve or cold weather (this is also common). The reason the wheels get hot from this is because a brake shoe presses against the wheel to slow it, but if the engine is pulling the car with the brake applied the wheel will not normally completely lock up, so a lot of friction is the result. Friction = heat.
There is another way heat can be produced. If the "journal" or bearing assembly is damaged, worn, or maybe out of oil, it will also produce a lot of friction, way more then even a wheel with an applied brake would. This can and will get so hot that the steel can glow. One guy said he saw one 10+ years ago that was melting, like dribbling steel into the snow. This kind of thing isn't common at all, but we do hear of them once in a while. For example a massive derailment in Gary Indiana two years ago just before Christmas was caused by a hot journal.
The hotbox detectors scan for heat but sometimes the heat is minor. In these cases the detector doesn't trip an alarm or speak on the radio to the train crew, but instead the information is sent to the "wayside" desk in Atlanta to be monitored. This is called a trending hot, and typically the response is to just watch it and maybe set and release the trains airbrake to see if that breaks it loose.
In the case of the hot journal the temperature will normally but much higher. If the temperature is medium the detector will speak a non critical alarm on the radio, and the crew will then contact the dispatcher for instructions. It is normalish for the dispatcher to say "30 to the next" meaning 30mph max speed to the next detector. This is a lazy answer, and its is done because the dispatchers HATE stopping trains on the main line, but it happens every single day.
If the temperature is high the alarm will sound a "critical alarm, critical alarm". The train crew is required to bring the train to a complete stop and contact the dispatch and the moc desk for instructions. The rule book is clear when it comes to critical alarms, the car must be inspected before the train can continue to move, and then the car must be set out at the nearest location that can accommodate it. In practice this rule is follow 95% of the time, but its not impossible that the chief dispatcher could order the crew to move the train, or get it out of the way of some super hotshit train that is behind them. Its not right, but it does sometimes happen.
In this case, unless you want to conspiracy about it (possible but iffy in my mind) then I'd have to assume the hotbox detector didn't throw a critical alarm, and the crew was told "30 to the next". This tracks with the article I saw that said the train moved 20+ miles at "over 30mph". I'd guess over 30 just means 30 here, so ya, 30 to the next is the most likely.
The thing with hot journals is this, they don't necessarily get molten all at once. Very often a journal is maybe just warm to the touch for a long time, days maybe, because the damage inside isn't terrible. But as the metal warms, it expands, until at some point it expands so much that it wants to seize up. When this happens the friction inside goes through the roof and the heat goes with it. Its entirely possible in my mind that the journal in question was 350f when it went over that detector, it didn't bark a critical, and then just afterward it seized up and the temperature spiked until that fucker melted.
So there you have it. The truth, as far as I can tell. No propaganda, no BS.
The real question is how reasonable is it to believe it was DELIBERATELY made to fail to dump this shit on the Amish, or distract from, fuck take your pick, or just to plan fuck up the livestock and crops to further the food shortages.
Personally I don't like assuming that industrial accidents are foul play, normally I'd say corner cutting or incompetence. But that fucking White Noise thing... that is a fucking problem.
And don't forget, this isn't the only one of these right now. Once is unfortunate, twice is a coincidence, three times is enemy action. That's what they say.
I'm still not sure, but I'm suspicious as fuck.
I'm happy to answer any other questions, so fire away.
[ + ] bobdole9
[ - ] bobdole9 11 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 13:30:17 ago (+11/-0)
Any idea what sort of (((insurance))) railroads have to carry hazardous materials?
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 7 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:15:45 ago (+7/-0)
As for safety, the railroad will never be safe, but its not exactly unregulated either. If anything I think there are too many rules most of the time.
I commented about this more on conpro. Many questions here will also be answered over there.
https://communities.win/c/ConsumeProduct/p/16aAIRKN2D/x/c
Norfolk Southern is self insured, so they will be paying for all of this out of pocket. I am sure they will do everything in their power to downplay the damage and their responsibility because of it.
[ + ] AngryWhiteKeyboardWarrior
[ - ] AngryWhiteKeyboardWarrior 3 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:05:54 ago (+3/-0)
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 2 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:18:29 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] MasklessTheGreat
[ - ] MasklessTheGreat 4 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 13:51:22 ago (+4/-0)
[ + ] Warden
[ - ] Warden 7 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 14:02:40 ago (+7/-0)
[ + ] dontknowwhatiwant
[ - ] dontknowwhatiwant 8 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 14:05:48 ago (+8/-0)
Heads need to roll.
[ + ] Warden
[ - ] Warden 4 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 14:40:27 ago (+4/-0)
[ + ] NukeAmerica
[ - ] NukeAmerica 2 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:16:12 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] observation1
[ - ] observation1 2 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 20:51:09 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] NukeAmerica
[ - ] NukeAmerica 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 06:30:16 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] deleted
[ - ] deleted 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 23:37:42 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] FreeinTX
[ - ] FreeinTX 4 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 14:09:45 ago (+4/-0)
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 11 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:55:41 ago (+11/-0)
Put us all out of my misery.
[ + ] Rotteuxx
[ - ] Rotteuxx 5 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 16:34:38 ago (+5/-0)
[ + ] texasblood
[ - ] texasblood 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 18:50:17 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Prairie
[ - ] Prairie 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 21:16:32 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Laputois
[ - ] Laputois 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 08:30:49 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] FreeinTX
[ - ] FreeinTX 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 08:38:09 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Laputois
[ - ] Laputois 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 13:15:25 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] FreeinTX
[ - ] FreeinTX 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 13:43:22 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] La_Chalupacabra
[ - ] La_Chalupacabra 3 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 13:27:59 ago (+3/-0)
I used to do hazmat CDL, so I'd like to compare notes.
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:29:42 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] La_Chalupacabra
[ - ] La_Chalupacabra 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:33:49 ago (+1/-0)
At least you guys don't have to deal with weigh stations and random stops by the DOT.
[ + ] cyclops1771
[ - ] cyclops1771 3 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 13:26:29 ago (+3/-0)
I've seen the evidence of lack of maintenance done in industrial vehicles from an old school goat. Hell, if people maintained these things, he wouldn't have a job, probably.
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 2 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:26:29 ago (+2/-0)
Lastly the journals in question don't have a lot of "tells" ahead of time. The only two that I know of is one: Blueing, indicating the that metal around the journal had been so hot that it had oxidised to create this blueing effect. The second is oil dribbling from the journal case. Both of these are easy to miss when you are inspecting 1500 cars in a day. Obviously they aren't just looking for journals here too, they have to inspect the entire car.
I'm not NS PR department but to be fair to the guys checking these cars is a lot like glancing at one of the magazine pics with the 20 objects hidden in them and expecting to find all 20 in the first pass.
Its never going to happen 100% of the time. Could NS hire more people, or let guys get more rest.
YES, absolutely, but they never will.
Lastly, it is entirely possible that the journal failed on line of road. No idea if that's the case, but it is possible.
[ + ] cyclops1771
[ - ] cyclops1771 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:34:18 ago (+0/-0)
Final question: I assume the cars in the yard already are pre-loaded with the freight, and by the time the conductor does the inspection, it's already on the train? If you had to remove a car, how much of a delay does that take for the yard dogs (is that term used at rail yards as well, or just trucking yards?) to remove it and reconnect the train?
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:59:30 ago (+1/-0)
The feds won that contest.
[ + ] uvulectomy
[ - ] uvulectomy 2 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 19:36:41 ago (+2/-0)
Said to be *20 miles* before the derailment: https://yewtu.be/wD9GrifO1ZI?t=17
As for the doorbell video, I have indeed seen it, but fuck me if I can find it again now.
[ + ] Fascinus
[ - ] Fascinus 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 19:59:04 ago (+1/-0)
Not sure if this is the same one and is on-topic nonetheless: https://files.catbox.moe/moqvkb.mp4
[ + ] uvulectomy
[ - ] uvulectomy 2 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 20:06:00 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 20:13:48 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] uvulectomy
[ - ] uvulectomy 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 20:16:27 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] uvulectomy
[ - ] uvulectomy 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 21:20:32 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Zyklonbeekeeper
[ - ] Zyklonbeekeeper 2 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:59:52 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 2 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 20:27:34 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] SkullFuckerSupreme
[ - ] SkullFuckerSupreme 2 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 14:04:52 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] Steelerfish
[ - ] Steelerfish 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 20:04:41 ago (+0/-0)
And if an axle is failing and the emergency brakes are triggered, I can see the inertia of dozens and dozens of cars still pushing causing a failure in a severely damaged bearing and axel…..
If the brakes are locked , the bearing is gone and everything is superheated and the damaged car is being torqued, I’m assuming the axel detached or similar causing that car to jump the track and all the cars following did the same?
[ + ] PygmyGoat
[ - ] PygmyGoat 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:50:38 ago (+1/-0)
I just watched White Noise two nights ago, and when they showed the wreck it made me ask myself if the media didn’t steal pictures of it from the movie to present as the actual event.
Lots of crap to track from that bizarre film.
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 19:33:04 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Peleg
[ - ] Peleg 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 21:14:28 ago (+0/-0)
(Time machine)
[ + ] NukeAmerica
[ - ] NukeAmerica 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:10:24 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 19:33:45 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Mr_
[ - ] Mr_ 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 13:15:46 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 2 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:45:15 ago (+2/-0)
20 or more class II flammable cars makes a HTUA train (high threat urban area). This train is also a key train, but is further restricted to 40mph in zones declared to be HTUA zones in our timetable. Speeding is a BIG no no. Instantly fired and decertified for 30 days federal minimum. Then you can fight to try to get your job back MAYBE.
Some hazmat is so scary it makes a key train all by itself, even just one car. I'm talking about stuff like explosives, or poison inhalation hazards, chlorine gas for example. Very scary, can and has killed entire towns. Normally this stuff will reclassify a train into an RSSM train (rail security sensitive material). This stuff has to have a chain of custody form maintained at all times, and cannot be received or delivered to a customer without a person physically present to receive and sign for that car. Think nuclear fuel rods, no joke we move everything. The ultra scary shit like this or DoD stuff comes with an entourage of military helicopters and sometimes feds on the ground at every road crossing too. No one is allowed to ask questions. No I am not making this up.
It is possible for a train to have less then 20 medium scary hazmat and not be a key train. I assume this was the case here, since they didn't seem to stop and inspect as they should have if they were a key.
[ + ]deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 10:01:23 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Allienonymus
[ - ] Allienonymus 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 08:42:19 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 09:50:01 ago (+0/-0)
I don't feel guilty watching from the sidelines anymore then you should.
[ + ] DoughGoy
[ - ] DoughGoy 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 00:53:07 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] x0x7
[ - ] x0x7 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 23:40:08 ago (+0/-0)
The reason I ask is that if the engineers figured barely under 350 is fine, then it must be fine in some cases to the next detector. I'm trying to figure out what other data could classify when that's not ok. Maybe it needs to throw critical at much less... or instead of using detectors a thermocoupler could be used in many places on the train (hundreds or thousands). The cost of doing that would be tiny compared to the general cost of construction. A drop in the bucket. Then those temperatures could be fed into a computer over time and it would be easier to profile what is happening based on the temperature curve.
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 09:55:26 ago (+0/-0)
While what your saying is possible, the idea that anything that costs money will be implemented is almost laughable. It won't happen.
If you want my honest opinion, I think the current setup is genuinely fine it does what it needs to do. The problem here as I see it is either in the decision to go 30 to the next, or in this whole thing being a set up.
[ + ] x0x7
[ - ] x0x7 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 12:49:17 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Prairie
[ - ] Prairie 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 21:18:36 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 10:03:24 ago (+1/-0)
All the programs the RR uses are anchant. We are using programs to clock in and out that originally ran on dos, and they still look like they do today. The programs that run the train are just as horrible, everything takes 10 - 15 minutes to fully boot up and it is as simple as it gets with lots of features you would expect to have just don't exist. This at a time when your cell phone can boot in 15 seconds. Honestly your cell phone is probably 10 times more powerful than the computers on the train.
Anyway my point is that we as a civilization are flagging all across the board. If this was a health company on the upswing, staffed by whites only and with competent people making the code, then sure I think your ask is possible.
In the current state of things it is impossible.
[ + ] RedBarchetta
[ - ] RedBarchetta 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 21:06:54 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] GuyWhite
[ - ] GuyWhite 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 20:21:17 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 10:03:52 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] GrayDragon
[ - ] GrayDragon 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 16:47:48 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 3 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:08:18 ago (+3/-0)
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 3 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:10:57 ago (+3/-0)
https://ascelibrary.org/cms/attachment/a4b2c240-759a-4d19-9ab1-de005ec703ce/1.gif
Its called a bearing here. We call it a journal.
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 3 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:13:42 ago (+3/-0)
And another, this one is called a journal.
[ + ] GrayDragon
[ - ] GrayDragon 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 18:14:20 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] _Obrez
[ - ] _Obrez 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 16:06:55 ago (+0/-0)
How possible do you think it is to mathematically equate this failure? What I'm asking is could some spook egghead take known friction coefficients and calculate how much oil and from which yard to launch a sabotaged train so as to fool the hotbox detector so that this thing would fail in this way roughly where it did fail? How difficult then would it be to sabotage this journals lubrication? Could one inside man do it if this thing stopped out of the yard to be walked/inspected by a conductor could some fucker just do the job there during the stoppage?
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 16:46:17 ago (+0/-0)
Now all the others stuff, like this thing with white noise. That is a major red flag.
[ + ] shitface9000
[ - ] shitface9000 2 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:17:18 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 20:31:06 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ]deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 16:01:20 ago (+1/-1)
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 16:06:02 ago (+1/-0)
Yes, everyone is overworked and moral is horrible.
Everyone that is responsible for shit that goes wrong universally tries to downplay the damage, and their own responsibility. Sad, but true.
[ + ] deleted
[ - ] deleted -1 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 16:12:23 ago (+0/-1)
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:17:14 ago (+0/-0)
As for the number of people on a train, 20 cars or 200 is the same 2 man crew.
Doesn't need to be more for the same reason a pilot and copilot can fly 50 people or 500.
[ + ] deleted
[ - ] deleted 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 23:08:42 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] albatrosv15
[ - ] albatrosv15 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:57:00 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Cantaloupe
[ - ] Cantaloupe 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:47:27 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 16:01:57 ago (+0/-0)
No clear right answer here. The truth is, stuff is organised based on ease for the guy building the train in the computer. Believe me, so long as the hazmat complies with the position in train sheet, he gives no fucks about the rest.
[ + ] JoesLegHair
[ - ] JoesLegHair 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 18:21:05 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 19:37:41 ago (+1/-0)
Last one that I can think of is flammable shit can't be next to a running "refer" or refrigerated car. Those cars have diesel powered generators that could be an ignition source so they are kept away for that reason.
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 19:38:54 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] fritz_maurentod
[ - ] fritz_maurentod 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:33:00 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:53:35 ago (+1/-0)
Trains cannot stop on hotbox detectors or slow below 8mph or the detector will alarm "train too slow". Procedure for this is to ask the dispatcher and/or the "moc" desk for instructions. 50/50 you will be told "30 to the next" or stop and inspect.
30 to the next means limited to 30mph until you clear the next detector. Based on all the info I've seen it seems like this train was hit by a hotbox, non critical alarm, and was told 30 to the next. The journal must of seized up soon after and the temperature went into orbit and the journal literally melted.
[ + ] fritz_maurentod
[ - ] fritz_maurentod 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 16:00:18 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 16:08:45 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] HeyJames
[ - ] HeyJames 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:28:26 ago (+0/-0)
Hopefully this results in better safety shutdown equipment that will prevent stuff like this from happening. In retrospect yeah would have been a good idea to shut that train down and go out there with a thermocouple or temp gun and see what's what.
[ + ] HeyJames
[ - ] HeyJames 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:08:30 ago (+0/-0)
Hopefully this results in better safety shutdown equipment that will prevent stuff like this from happening. In retrospect yeah would have been a good idea to shut that train down and go out there with a thermocouple or temp gun and see what's what.
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 16:07:43 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] lord_nougat
[ - ] lord_nougat 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 13:17:46 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] Weredawg
[ - ] Weredawg 4 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 13:28:25 ago (+4/-0)
[ + ] SkullFuckerSupreme
[ - ] SkullFuckerSupreme 6 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 14:05:26 ago (+6/-0)
[ + ] oyveyo
[ - ] oyveyo 2 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:28:10 ago (+2/-0)
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 3 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:53:53 ago (+3/-0)
[ + ] SkullFuckerSupreme
[ - ] SkullFuckerSupreme 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:33:03 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander -2 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:13:39 ago (+0/-2)
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 20:28:19 ago (+2/-1)
[ + ] Anus_Expander
[ - ] Anus_Expander 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 07:16:16 ago (+1/-1)
--my mom is 76 and bedridden, with dementia. Go over and cheer the old girl up, would you?
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 10:05:10 ago (+1/-0)
[ + ] TheBigGuyFromQueens
[ - ] TheBigGuyFromQueens -2 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 16:56:45 ago (+0/-2)
[ + ] Aze
[ - ] Aze [op] 3 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:07:28 ago (+3/-0)
BOOM Gotem'
[ + ] TheBigGuyFromQueens
[ - ] TheBigGuyFromQueens -1 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:15:31 ago (+0/-1)
[ + ] NukeAmerica
[ - ] NukeAmerica 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:34:51 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] TheBigGuyFromQueens
[ - ] TheBigGuyFromQueens 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:38:30 ago (+0/-0)
[ + ] NukeAmerica
[ - ] NukeAmerica 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 19:00:01 ago (+0/-0)