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A lot of people here have been asking about the derailment in East Palestine and want to know more about how this could happen. I work for Norfolk Southern, as a trainman so I can shed some light on some things. AMA.

submitted by Aze to whatever 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 13:08:31 ago (+65/-0)     (whatever)

I'll start with the question I've seen most, "What's this about the train ignoring several detectors and what cause this derailment"

All indications are that this was caused by a "hot journal" failure, more on that later. Apparently a doorbell camera saw the glowing hot journal pass by sometime before the derailment. No I don't have that video. Consider it hearsay for now.

The detector people have been asking about is referring to a "hotbox" detector. It scans the train for heat anomalies. Heat anomalies normally happen when a car has a handbrake that has been left on (happens all the time) or if the cars airbrake system "sets up" because of a bad valve or cold weather (this is also common). The reason the wheels get hot from this is because a brake shoe presses against the wheel to slow it, but if the engine is pulling the car with the brake applied the wheel will not normally completely lock up, so a lot of friction is the result. Friction = heat.

There is another way heat can be produced. If the "journal" or bearing assembly is damaged, worn, or maybe out of oil, it will also produce a lot of friction, way more then even a wheel with an applied brake would. This can and will get so hot that the steel can glow. One guy said he saw one 10+ years ago that was melting, like dribbling steel into the snow. This kind of thing isn't common at all, but we do hear of them once in a while. For example a massive derailment in Gary Indiana two years ago just before Christmas was caused by a hot journal.

The hotbox detectors scan for heat but sometimes the heat is minor. In these cases the detector doesn't trip an alarm or speak on the radio to the train crew, but instead the information is sent to the "wayside" desk in Atlanta to be monitored. This is called a trending hot, and typically the response is to just watch it and maybe set and release the trains airbrake to see if that breaks it loose.

In the case of the hot journal the temperature will normally but much higher. If the temperature is medium the detector will speak a non critical alarm on the radio, and the crew will then contact the dispatcher for instructions. It is normalish for the dispatcher to say "30 to the next" meaning 30mph max speed to the next detector. This is a lazy answer, and its is done because the dispatchers HATE stopping trains on the main line, but it happens every single day.

If the temperature is high the alarm will sound a "critical alarm, critical alarm". The train crew is required to bring the train to a complete stop and contact the dispatch and the moc desk for instructions. The rule book is clear when it comes to critical alarms, the car must be inspected before the train can continue to move, and then the car must be set out at the nearest location that can accommodate it. In practice this rule is follow 95% of the time, but its not impossible that the chief dispatcher could order the crew to move the train, or get it out of the way of some super hotshit train that is behind them. Its not right, but it does sometimes happen.

In this case, unless you want to conspiracy about it (possible but iffy in my mind) then I'd have to assume the hotbox detector didn't throw a critical alarm, and the crew was told "30 to the next". This tracks with the article I saw that said the train moved 20+ miles at "over 30mph". I'd guess over 30 just means 30 here, so ya, 30 to the next is the most likely.

The thing with hot journals is this, they don't necessarily get molten all at once. Very often a journal is maybe just warm to the touch for a long time, days maybe, because the damage inside isn't terrible. But as the metal warms, it expands, until at some point it expands so much that it wants to seize up. When this happens the friction inside goes through the roof and the heat goes with it. Its entirely possible in my mind that the journal in question was 350f when it went over that detector, it didn't bark a critical, and then just afterward it seized up and the temperature spiked until that fucker melted.

So there you have it. The truth, as far as I can tell. No propaganda, no BS.

The real question is how reasonable is it to believe it was DELIBERATELY made to fail to dump this shit on the Amish, or distract from, fuck take your pick, or just to plan fuck up the livestock and crops to further the food shortages.

Personally I don't like assuming that industrial accidents are foul play, normally I'd say corner cutting or incompetence. But that fucking White Noise thing... that is a fucking problem.

And don't forget, this isn't the only one of these right now. Once is unfortunate, twice is a coincidence, three times is enemy action. That's what they say.

I'm still not sure, but I'm suspicious as fuck.

I'm happy to answer any other questions, so fire away.


100 comments block


[ - ] bobdole9 11 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 13:30:17 ago (+11/-0)

Wasn't safety one of the main reasons the unions were striking?

Any idea what sort of (((insurance))) railroads have to carry hazardous materials?

[ - ] Aze [op] 7 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:15:45 ago (+7/-0)

Safety was a buzz word the unions use for political reasons im my opinion. The real issue we wanted to strike is company abuse (seriously they are ruthless rat bastards), quality of life (basically I am not a slave, I need time at home with my family), and of course pay. The pay is a big one, compensation may still be high relative to most jobs, but it has still stagnated for almost 20 years. Add in inflation and no longer is the railroad the land of milk and honey and bigtity virgons. The fact that so many people with 20 years are voluntarily leaving is a testament to that. Trust me, its really bad.

As for safety, the railroad will never be safe, but its not exactly unregulated either. If anything I think there are too many rules most of the time.

I commented about this more on conpro. Many questions here will also be answered over there.

https://communities.win/c/ConsumeProduct/p/16aAIRKN2D/x/c

Norfolk Southern is self insured, so they will be paying for all of this out of pocket. I am sure they will do everything in their power to downplay the damage and their responsibility because of it.

[ - ] AngryWhiteKeyboardWarrior 3 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:05:54 ago (+3/-0)

If so many of the 20 year guys are leaving, it sounds like things are going to keep getting worse. I'm guessing they'll promote some guys to replace the ones leaving, but then hire a bunch of diversity checkboxes to fill in the holes created by promotion.

[ - ] Aze [op] 2 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:18:29 ago (+2/-0)

You fucking got it.

[ - ] MasklessTheGreat 4 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 13:51:22 ago (+4/-0)

That’s always a talking point in all union negotiations. It’s a given. There was extra media coverage about it. Possibly to set up all of the future derailments? We may never know.

[ - ] Warden 7 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 14:02:40 ago (+7/-0)

Yeah, that movie coming out, and the fact that the most dangerous of the spills happened in Palestine, way too cohencidental for my likings.

[ - ] dontknowwhatiwant 8 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 14:05:48 ago (+8/-0)

Watched it last night (do not recommend, shitty movie). The coincidence is startling. Big one IMHO is the FACT that the chemicals were not leaking. The leak was caused on purpose and set on fire to "burn off" these incredibly dangerous chemicals instead of getting tankers in there and taking it away like any sane HAZMAT response would do.

Heads need to roll.

[ - ] Warden 4 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 14:40:27 ago (+4/-0)

It was a total of 5 chemical tanks that derailed, I’m pretty sure 2 of them were leaking, so the Fed’s decided to blow all 5 of them up. Like who in their right mind makes that decision? More than half of what leaked was completely contained before they blew them up.

[ - ] NukeAmerica 2 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:16:12 ago (+2/-0)

I watched it too. All the weird symbolism and the stuff they were saying was just too much for this not to be on purpose.

[ - ] observation1 2 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 20:51:09 ago (+2/-0)

Can you describe some of the symbolism?

[ - ] NukeAmerica 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 06:30:16 ago (+1/-0)

I shouldn't have used the word symbolism, more like the style of the movie, It's like a cult made it, it had strange vibes. Although there could be some symbolism in it I missed. The part that stood out for me is the speech about Hitler as the train blew up.

[ - ] deleted 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 23:37:42 ago (+1/-0)

deleted

[ - ] FreeinTX 4 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 14:09:45 ago (+4/-0)

If a train leaves LA going east at 80 mph and a train leaves NY going west at 75mph which train has the most fags on it?

[ - ] Aze [op] 11 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:55:41 ago (+11/-0)

I don't know but I hope they meet in the middle at 155mph and create a gay black hole to "swallow" this gay earth.

Put us all out of my misery.

[ - ] Rotteuxx 5 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 16:34:38 ago (+5/-0)

This is the only correct answer.

[ - ] texasblood 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 18:50:17 ago (+0/-0)

East@80

[ - ] Prairie 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 21:16:32 ago (+0/-0)

The LA train has fags from Commiefornia, and the NY train has jews.

[ - ] Laputois 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 08:30:49 ago (+0/-0)

This was a good, informative post with posters possessing knowledge and insight into a major issue and you felt the need to come in and shit it up. Bravo, you are the faggot.

[ - ] FreeinTX 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 08:38:09 ago (+0/-0)

If I gave you a quarter, do you think you could find a payphone to call someone who actually gave a shit, homo?

[ - ] Laputois 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 13:15:25 ago (+0/-0)

You mean a ruble don't you Ivan?

[ - ] FreeinTX 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 13:43:22 ago (+0/-0)

Your pay phones take rubles? Weird.

[ - ] La_Chalupacabra 3 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 13:27:59 ago (+3/-0)

What's the standard operating procedure for handling a hazardous chemical derailment like this?

I used to do hazmat CDL, so I'd like to compare notes.

[ - ] Aze [op] 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:29:42 ago (+1/-0)

We carry a red hazmat book with all the information about any hazmat we could be carrying. This has handling instructions, health risk information, and evacuation details. In the event of a big spill like this the conductor would be expect to provide any needed information to the responders and assist as able. Of course the train will also carry a consist showing every car and any hazmat its carrying, along with its position in train.

[ - ] La_Chalupacabra 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:33:49 ago (+1/-0)

That's comparable to what we were required to follow.
At least you guys don't have to deal with weigh stations and random stops by the DOT.

[ - ] cyclops1771 3 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 13:26:29 ago (+3/-0)

Who is responsible for maintenance on the cars? NSC or someone else? Is that farmed out or managed by the car owner, or a third party? Who does the inspections? Again, NSC or someone else? Does the engineer have any say on the equipment attached to his engine?

I've seen the evidence of lack of maintenance done in industrial vehicles from an old school goat. Hell, if people maintained these things, he wouldn't have a job, probably.

[ - ] Aze [op] 2 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:26:29 ago (+2/-0)

The Car department people are responsible for inspecting every car before it leaves the "yard", but if a conductor walks past any car he is supposed to be checking for stuff like that too. How much does that actually happen? Not much, not past the first 6 cars in the train anyway(we are required to check those). Most cars will enter and leave a yard every few days, so they SHOULD be inspected a lot. In practice the people doing the work are humans, they are tired and overworked because we are so short handed (buck stops with NS on that one).

Lastly the journals in question don't have a lot of "tells" ahead of time. The only two that I know of is one: Blueing, indicating the that metal around the journal had been so hot that it had oxidised to create this blueing effect. The second is oil dribbling from the journal case. Both of these are easy to miss when you are inspecting 1500 cars in a day. Obviously they aren't just looking for journals here too, they have to inspect the entire car.

I'm not NS PR department but to be fair to the guys checking these cars is a lot like glancing at one of the magazine pics with the 20 objects hidden in them and expecting to find all 20 in the first pass.

Its never going to happen 100% of the time. Could NS hire more people, or let guys get more rest.

YES, absolutely, but they never will.

Lastly, it is entirely possible that the journal failed on line of road. No idea if that's the case, but it is possible.

[ - ] cyclops1771 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:34:18 ago (+0/-0)

Would having an independent person verify help or hinder? probably can't afford to do that, as anyone worth their salt would red tag anything less than 80%, and we can't have maintenance get in the way of hauling freight (management view.)

Final question: I assume the cars in the yard already are pre-loaded with the freight, and by the time the conductor does the inspection, it's already on the train? If you had to remove a car, how much of a delay does that take for the yard dogs (is that term used at rail yards as well, or just trucking yards?) to remove it and reconnect the train?

[ - ] Aze [op] 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:59:30 ago (+1/-0)

First question: The feds can send the FRA at anytime to spotcheck anything anywhere. They can and have shown up to the yard where I work with a fucking BUS of dudes and "bad ordered" the entire fucking yard when they got into a pissing contest with the yardmaster. The story is legendary.

The feds won that contest.

[ - ] uvulectomy 2 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 19:36:41 ago (+2/-0)

No I don't have that video. Consider it hearsay for now.

Said to be *20 miles* before the derailment: https://yewtu.be/wD9GrifO1ZI?t=17

As for the doorbell video, I have indeed seen it, but fuck me if I can find it again now.

[ - ] Fascinus 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 19:59:04 ago (+1/-0)

As for the doorbell video, I have indeed seen it, but fuck me if I can find it again now.

Not sure if this is the same one and is on-topic nonetheless: https://files.catbox.moe/moqvkb.mp4

Video from @PittsburghPG shows CCTV footage of one of the cars on fire miles before the derailment. When was the crew alerted from the hot-box detectors that there was a major issue with one of the cars? It seems they began to break after the E Palestine hot-box, but possibly… https://t.co/UOfugBuJux https://t.co/889tNf8k8F

[ - ] uvulectomy 2 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 20:06:00 ago (+2/-0)

Different video, same security footage though.

[ - ] Aze [op] 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 20:13:48 ago (+1/-0)

I heard they got hit by a detector and then proceeded 20 more miles before it derailed. If the doorbell video was indeed 20 miles away from the derailment then there is almost no way that detector didn't throw a critical alarm because the wheels are already on fire here. No way they wouldn't of stopped if they were a key train (not sure if they were) with a critical. If they were ordered to proceed in that condition and the audio logs of ever dropped it would be the scandal of the decade.

[ - ] uvulectomy 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 20:16:27 ago (+1/-0)

The doorbell video was said to have been from just before the crash. And I'm racking my brain trying to find it because I know I saw the damn thing. Unless there's some fucked up mandala effect going on.

[ - ] uvulectomy 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 21:20:32 ago (+1/-0)

[ - ] Zyklonbeekeeper 2 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:59:52 ago (+2/-0)

@OP...I've done a lot of derailments with my cranes, worked a lot with Hulcher, anyways, yeah I refrained from commenting on this one because it probably was some type of equipment failure, I would get calls from CP CN WISCONSIN CENTRAL & GENESEE WYOMING to do wheel axle or traction motor changeouts in the middle of nowhere, 450,000lb locomotive, one end in the air and pulling the bolster out between the crane and the engine so as to get the trac motor out and replaced was a common occurrence...even doors left opened on an empty boxcar caused derailments due to the resonating air flow...had many with crude oil go off and chlorine tankers as well...shit happens naturally but in all my years there was only one that was deliberate and the guy was a disgruntled ex-employee who remove a rail.

[ - ] Aze [op] 2 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 20:27:34 ago (+2/-0)

Ya, I've seen plenty of monster crane to put shit back on the rail in my Home yard. Just about every week nowdays.

[ - ] SkullFuckerSupreme 2 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 14:04:52 ago (+2/-0)

Have you been working on the railroad, all the daylong day?

[ - ] Steelerfish 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 20:04:41 ago (+0/-0)

Is it common to have a 150+ - car 9000’ + long train in that area? It’s the Appalachian foothills with lost of grades and turns. I’m fairly familiar with the area from my youth…
And if an axle is failing and the emergency brakes are triggered, I can see the inertia of dozens and dozens of cars still pushing causing a failure in a severely damaged bearing and axel…..
If the brakes are locked , the bearing is gone and everything is superheated and the damaged car is being torqued, I’m assuming the axel detached or similar causing that car to jump the track and all the cars following did the same?

[ - ] PygmyGoat 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:50:38 ago (+1/-0)

Thanks for your post and the responses faggot.

I just watched White Noise two nights ago, and when they showed the wreck it made me ask myself if the media didn’t steal pictures of it from the movie to present as the actual event.

Lots of crap to track from that bizarre film.

[ - ] Aze [op] 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 19:33:04 ago (+1/-0)

Np niggerfaggot. I am here to help.

[ - ] Peleg 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 21:14:28 ago (+0/-0)

But what if the movie people stole pictures from the media to present in the movie!
(Time machine)

[ - ] NukeAmerica 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:10:24 ago (+1/-0)

I saw that people in Canada could smell chlorine. A new pic came out from a aerial photo and it looked like a goddamn volcano erupted. How bad do you guys think this is going to be? Is the entire north-east going to get cancer?

[ - ] Aze [op] 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 19:33:45 ago (+0/-0)

Heard that. Not sure if I believe it, but i heard it.

[ - ] Mr_ 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 13:15:46 ago (+1/-0)

Early on there was hearsay about the train company not marking the cargo correctly like hazmat or whatever. Would procedure be different depending on what kinda of cargo? That seems like an obvious yes, but I’m dumb about stuff.

[ - ] Aze [op] 2 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:45:15 ago (+2/-0)

Yes, some trains don't carry anything scary at all. These trains can go 60mph, and are less restricted about how they have to behave if they do get hit by a detector and so on. 20 or more ANY HAZMAT turns it into a key train which is limited to 50mph, and must (by the rules) stop when hit by a detector and inspect the car in question. Are the rules followed? MOST of the time, high 90%s. The crew can only do what they are told, so if someone orders them to jump they say what color.

20 or more class II flammable cars makes a HTUA train (high threat urban area). This train is also a key train, but is further restricted to 40mph in zones declared to be HTUA zones in our timetable. Speeding is a BIG no no. Instantly fired and decertified for 30 days federal minimum. Then you can fight to try to get your job back MAYBE.

Some hazmat is so scary it makes a key train all by itself, even just one car. I'm talking about stuff like explosives, or poison inhalation hazards, chlorine gas for example. Very scary, can and has killed entire towns. Normally this stuff will reclassify a train into an RSSM train (rail security sensitive material). This stuff has to have a chain of custody form maintained at all times, and cannot be received or delivered to a customer without a person physically present to receive and sign for that car. Think nuclear fuel rods, no joke we move everything. The ultra scary shit like this or DoD stuff comes with an entourage of military helicopters and sometimes feds on the ground at every road crossing too. No one is allowed to ask questions. No I am not making this up.

It is possible for a train to have less then 20 medium scary hazmat and not be a key train. I assume this was the case here, since they didn't seem to stop and inspect as they should have if they were a key.

[ - ] deleted 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 10:01:23 ago (+0/-0)

deleted

[ - ] Allienonymus 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 08:42:19 ago (+0/-0)

Is it true a black chick was affirmative actioned into a role overseeing the line and do you feel guilt about the hardship you caused by standing on the sidelines watching it happen?

[ - ] Aze [op] 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 09:50:01 ago (+0/-0)

I don't know how true that is, I just saw the meme today like you.

I don't feel guilty watching from the sidelines anymore then you should.

[ - ] DoughGoy 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 00:53:07 ago (+0/-0)

I used to load hazardous tank cars for many years. We were always told that if there was a derailment and a spill, that the authorities would completely inspect the leaking railcar and look for any reason to pick the leak on the man that loaded it.

[ - ] x0x7 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 23:40:08 ago (+0/-0)

A question for you. These detectors. They are on the track. Are they a single detector or do they put two or three of them in series so that the trajectory of temperature can be extrapolated?

The reason I ask is that if the engineers figured barely under 350 is fine, then it must be fine in some cases to the next detector. I'm trying to figure out what other data could classify when that's not ok. Maybe it needs to throw critical at much less... or instead of using detectors a thermocoupler could be used in many places on the train (hundreds or thousands). The cost of doing that would be tiny compared to the general cost of construction. A drop in the bucket. Then those temperatures could be fed into a computer over time and it would be easier to profile what is happening based on the temperature curve.

[ - ] Aze [op] 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 09:55:26 ago (+0/-0)

Its a single unit, just a temp sensor + a dragging equipment sensor as I understand.

While what your saying is possible, the idea that anything that costs money will be implemented is almost laughable. It won't happen.

If you want my honest opinion, I think the current setup is genuinely fine it does what it needs to do. The problem here as I see it is either in the decision to go 30 to the next, or in this whole thing being a set up.

[ - ] x0x7 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 12:49:17 ago (+0/-0)

I do think the current system can do the job but it sounds like the tolerances for what causes a critical alarm needed to be much lower in a system that isn't very data rich. You basically have to assume you don't know what's happening with a system that collects data so infrequently. Then the question is which costs less, more constrained tolerances or collecting more data.

[ - ] Prairie 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 21:18:36 ago (+0/-0)

I guess they can't detect this by increased drag? Given the force required to pull the train, the extra drag from this friction is probably a few percent.

[ - ] Aze [op] 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 10:03:24 ago (+1/-0)

I think there is a egg head out there someplace who could code this into the trains computers, but everything right now is diversity hires all the things.

All the programs the RR uses are anchant. We are using programs to clock in and out that originally ran on dos, and they still look like they do today. The programs that run the train are just as horrible, everything takes 10 - 15 minutes to fully boot up and it is as simple as it gets with lots of features you would expect to have just don't exist. This at a time when your cell phone can boot in 15 seconds. Honestly your cell phone is probably 10 times more powerful than the computers on the train.

Anyway my point is that we as a civilization are flagging all across the board. If this was a health company on the upswing, staffed by whites only and with competent people making the code, then sure I think your ask is possible.

In the current state of things it is impossible.

[ - ] RedBarchetta 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 21:06:54 ago (+0/-0)

Pete Buttplug is blaming this on Trump and the ECP brakes. Whats the truth of this. I looked it up and the ECP brakes were removed on Crude Oil Tanker Cars. It said nothing else.

[ - ] GuyWhite 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 20:21:17 ago (+0/-0)

Wow Aze…great thread and good info. Thanks so much!

[ - ] Aze [op] 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 10:03:52 ago (+0/-0)

Cheers mate, I had fun.

[ - ] GrayDragon 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 16:47:48 ago (+0/-0)

You keep talking about a train journal. What is it? I did a quick Internet search, and train magazines came back.

[ - ] Aze [op] 3 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:08:18 ago (+3/-0)

Its the bearing assembly in the center of the wheels. No idea why its called a journal.

[ - ] Aze [op] 3 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:10:57 ago (+3/-0)

Here

https://ascelibrary.org/cms/attachment/a4b2c240-759a-4d19-9ab1-de005ec703ce/1.gif

Its called a bearing here. We call it a journal.

[ - ] Aze [op] 3 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:13:42 ago (+3/-0)

[ - ] GrayDragon 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 18:14:20 ago (+0/-0)

Thanks!

[ - ] _Obrez 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 16:06:55 ago (+0/-0)

Don't train derailments happen constantly? Not catastrophic derails like this one, but little ones where a couple of wheels jump a rail for whatever reason.

How possible do you think it is to mathematically equate this failure? What I'm asking is could some spook egghead take known friction coefficients and calculate how much oil and from which yard to launch a sabotaged train so as to fool the hotbox detector so that this thing would fail in this way roughly where it did fail? How difficult then would it be to sabotage this journals lubrication? Could one inside man do it if this thing stopped out of the yard to be walked/inspected by a conductor could some fucker just do the job there during the stoppage?

[ - ] Aze [op] 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 16:46:17 ago (+0/-0)

I think most of this is a reach bordering on impossibleforhumans math, but one man who has the right knowledge could probably have sabotaged the journal, probably by doing something to crack the journal case and/or drain the oil. Its still a maybe though. Remember journals aren't like a bomb on the rail, they go when they feel like it. So while I can't say it wasn't deliberate, it also seems REALY uncontrolled. There is no guarantee the tanks will even rupture if it did spill.

Now all the others stuff, like this thing with white noise. That is a major red flag.

[ - ] shitface9000 2 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:17:18 ago (+2/-0)

I'm sure this thing was planned. Maybe they planted a small charge in a few select cars and triggered it at the right moment.

[ - ] Aze [op] 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 20:31:06 ago (+0/-0)

And the hot journal is just the cover. The thought had occurred.

[ - ] deleted 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 16:01:20 ago (+1/-1)

deleted

[ - ] Aze [op] 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 16:06:02 ago (+1/-0)

The crew is currently two people, unless they had a student, or a manager doing a required ride along (unlikely). All the railroads want to go down to one man crews, and yes its a horrible idea. They don't care how dangerous it is they just don't want to pay humans, or deal with hiring them.

Yes, everyone is overworked and moral is horrible.

Everyone that is responsible for shit that goes wrong universally tries to downplay the damage, and their own responsibility. Sad, but true.

[ - ] deleted -1 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 16:12:23 ago (+0/-1)

deleted

[ - ] Aze [op] 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:17:14 ago (+0/-0)

I feel for the people that got fucked, but I have no medican for it.

As for the number of people on a train, 20 cars or 200 is the same 2 man crew.

Doesn't need to be more for the same reason a pilot and copilot can fly 50 people or 500.

[ - ] deleted 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 23:08:42 ago (+0/-0)

deleted

[ - ] albatrosv15 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:57:00 ago (+0/-0)

I'm smart now.

[ - ] Cantaloupe 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:47:27 ago (+0/-0)

Why was so much of that chemical together on the train? Why not spread it out? Lowers the chance of an issue.

[ - ] Aze [op] 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 16:01:57 ago (+0/-0)

But increases the chance that one of those cars will be involved if something happens ANYPLACE on the train.

No clear right answer here. The truth is, stuff is organised based on ease for the guy building the train in the computer. Believe me, so long as the hazmat complies with the position in train sheet, he gives no fucks about the rest.

[ - ] JoesLegHair 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 18:21:05 ago (+0/-0)

Are there any requirements for the position of a car based on it's cargo?

[ - ] Aze [op] 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 19:37:41 ago (+1/-0)

Haz mat cant be within the first 5 cars (unless its a unit train, meaning all crude oil for example), and tanker cars cant be next to a shiftable load, in case the... say sheet steel could slide forward and guillotine into the tanker.

Last one that I can think of is flammable shit can't be next to a running "refer" or refrigerated car. Those cars have diesel powered generators that could be an ignition source so they are kept away for that reason.

[ - ] Aze [op] 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 19:38:54 ago (+0/-0)

Oh and some stuff can't be on the rear of the train either.

[ - ] fritz_maurentod 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:33:00 ago (+0/-0)

So these temperature detectors are placed on the side of rails and catch the train passing? How far apart are they? Does the train have to slow down when passing through them?

[ - ] Aze [op] 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:53:35 ago (+1/-0)

Its built into the rail, they are about every 15 - 20 miles depending, and the train doesn't need to slow down. These detectors also check for dragging equipment, and a different detector (thumpers) check for imbalanced loads, and square wheels.

Trains cannot stop on hotbox detectors or slow below 8mph or the detector will alarm "train too slow". Procedure for this is to ask the dispatcher and/or the "moc" desk for instructions. 50/50 you will be told "30 to the next" or stop and inspect.

30 to the next means limited to 30mph until you clear the next detector. Based on all the info I've seen it seems like this train was hit by a hotbox, non critical alarm, and was told 30 to the next. The journal must of seized up soon after and the temperature went into orbit and the journal literally melted.

[ - ] fritz_maurentod 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 16:00:18 ago (+0/-0)

Very interesting. Thank you. Perhaps this happened to me in Germany some days ago. Our ICE stopped in the middle of nowhere, the driver went out to check something, asked the desk for instructions and continued at 100km/h max. to the next station where we all had to get out.

[ - ] Aze [op] 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 16:08:45 ago (+0/-0)

Ya, I'd say they found something iffy.

[ - ] HeyJames 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:28:26 ago (+0/-0)

Well I feel bad for everyone involved. Guess if you really want to point fingers, whoever certified the maintenance last or fixed a minor issue on that machine will get blamed. That's usually how it works.

Hopefully this results in better safety shutdown equipment that will prevent stuff like this from happening. In retrospect yeah would have been a good idea to shut that train down and go out there with a thermocouple or temp gun and see what's what.

[ - ] HeyJames 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:08:30 ago (+0/-0)

Well I feel bad for everyone involved. Guess if you really want to point fingers, whoever certified the maintenance last or fixed a minor issue on that machine will get blamed. That's usually how it works.

Hopefully this results in better safety shutdown equipment that will prevent stuff like this from happening. In retrospect yeah would have been a good idea to shut that train down and go out there with a thermocouple or temp gun and see what's what.

[ - ] Aze [op] 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 16:07:43 ago (+1/-0)

We carry a temp stick (its a fucking crayon ok) to test the temp. Most of the time I just take off one glove and hold my hand out. If its hot you will know from 3 ft away.

[ - ] lord_nougat 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 13:17:46 ago (+0/-0)

Are you part train / part man?

[ - ] Weredawg 4 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 13:28:25 ago (+4/-0)

He's a trains man.

[ - ] SkullFuckerSupreme 6 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 14:05:26 ago (+6/-0)

He is in trainsition.

[ - ] oyveyo 2 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:28:10 ago (+2/-0)

He's a trainy

[ - ] Aze [op] 3 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:53:53 ago (+3/-0)

Fu

[ - ] SkullFuckerSupreme 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 15:33:03 ago (+1/-0)

You fucking trainsphobe bigot!!!

[ - ] Anus_Expander -2 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:13:39 ago (+0/-2)

Ever have sex on a train? Jerkin it doesn't count.

[ - ] Aze [op] 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 20:28:19 ago (+2/-1)

How about BJs? Or Handies from your mom?

[ - ] Anus_Expander 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 07:16:16 ago (+1/-1)

I notice you avoided answering my question. Jerkin it, it is.

--my mom is 76 and bedridden, with dementia. Go over and cheer the old girl up, would you?

[ - ] Aze [op] 1 point 1.2 yearsFeb 16, 2023 10:05:10 ago (+1/-0)

Swiggity Swooty.

[ - ] TheBigGuyFromQueens -2 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 16:56:45 ago (+0/-2)

WHY MY DICK SO BIG

[ - ] Aze [op] 3 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:07:28 ago (+3/-0)

Must be that 50% nigger DNA you have.

BOOM Gotem'

[ - ] TheBigGuyFromQueens -1 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:15:31 ago (+0/-1)

DONT EVER ACCUSE ME OF HAVIN WHITE BLOOD U RAGGEDY ASS CRACKA MY GRANDADDY 1/4 APACHE THASS WHY I HAVE GOOD HAIR.

[ - ] NukeAmerica 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:34:51 ago (+0/-0)

Imagine how many times your female ancestors got BLEACHED by their slave masters. You ain’t no pure breed.

[ - ] TheBigGuyFromQueens 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 17:38:30 ago (+0/-0)

FUCK U OFAY IM BLACKER THAN ONYX. THE SCIENTIST NIGGUHS USED MY SKIN TO FESIGN VANTA BLACK THEY USE ME 4 EMERGENCY MELANIN DONATION

[ - ] NukeAmerica 0 points 1.2 yearsFeb 15, 2023 19:00:01 ago (+0/-0)

Yeah ok light skin.